Smart Car Discussion

I'm looking at several piggyback options and trying to decide what would be the most user friendly, trouble free mode of street legal transportation; Smart, trike, etc.????  I know what I really want does not exist, a 50 state all-roads street legal.

Razor, Ranger, Mule, or Jeep that would fit cross ways on the back of a HDT.  If this issue has been beaten to death in previous discussions can you point me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Lee

Our Smart is a model 450 which is 98" long, the 451 currently sold in the states is 107" so that is an issue.  The only 450s in the US were gray market cars and less that 1,100 were federalized.  The Canadian 450s were all diesel and there are issues getting them in under EPA regulations, though that seems to be loosening in some areas.

As far as changes to what we did, the only issues were attaching to the tow hooks with a strap, which we replaced with a bar; and burning out the 2,500 lb. winch, which we replaced with an 8k Smittybilt winch.

We have been happy with the Smart as a daily driver as well, it is the DWs primary vehicle when we are home and obviously primary when we travel.  No issues with city or highway driving, although the ride comfort could be better, but not much can be done about it due to the short wheelbase.

There are several reports of fairly straight-forward import procedures.

I think the SMART is the only vehicle out there that can mount sideways on a HDT.
Rick

I decided to not tilt the bed after advice from guys that did and didn't. After a couple years loading, no issue.  I use 12' folding Alum "Big Boyz" ramps from Discount Ramps.  If the truck is close to level (side to side) and I dump the air, no issues at all with clearance on the bottom of the car loading. I drive it off with no problem.  Winch it up using a Smitybuilt 8K winch.  Since there is no frame to tie the car with, and you need to let the car's suspension work (so it doesn't beat itself to death on the truck) you need to strap the tires down.  That takes the most time, but no issue.

If I were to change anything, it would be the way I built the frame for the winch pulley (reverses the winch cable direction, see pics on my Picasa album) Its way to massive and heavy to lift and store. I will rework that soon.

Some folks don't winch up, they drive er up!  I feel the little car's clutch is way to fragile to handle the incline and very costly to replace.

Being in Canada the 450 Smarts are easy to find and reasonable to buy like Rick mentioned.  They do have faults.  High cost of parts and labor if you have to take it in to MB.  I try to do all the work myself, but still have to buy the parts!  Had to replace one injector, turbo, wiper mech/motor, springs and a few minor items.  All fairly common items on the Diesels.  Had the car for 2 yrs.  Had 40K on it when we got it and 75K now.  We don't mind driving the little car.  We don't even notice its small anymore.  Loads of leg room.  It drives very nice and has plenty of power to get us where we need to go.  No issue on the highways either.

We will replace it with a new 451 (Gasser) when the time is right.  I already have test loaded one this past summer to see how it looked.  I will have no issue carrying it with the "Actual" 2 1/2" per side more than the 450.  Remove the front license plate bracket to trim an inch.

If money were no object, I'd build a tilt loader that you load the car flat on the ground, strap it and hit a button!  Sweet!  See Henry for getting one of those!!

We were lucky to have the forum and the very helpful folks here help us with tips on bed build and equipment.  Check the resource guide for Smart stuff, it has a ton of info.  If you need any details, just ask the folks that have them loaded!
Bill

roadfitter on Dec 2 2010, 07:15 PM, said:
"ESCAPEE" threads of a "SMART for TWO" BOF.

Sign us up, I feel the need to be a BOF.

Gargoyle, dare I ask why you would know the "Code"?

Speaking of tips, the Smarts have an automatic hill holder that prevent you from "feathering" the brakes going down the ramps.  First time I tried it I got the front wheels onto the ramps, slowly released the brakes and nothing happened!  Then, 3 seconds later, BANG I was on the ground!  That was exciting.  Now I move the wheels onto the ramps and shift to neutral - then I can "feather" the brakes all the way down.  The DW still refuses to watch

Be aware that the wheels on the car do NOT match what is on a Smart car.  IMHO, I don't think it's a Smart

We use an 8K# Smitty built winch to haul it up on the bed.  It goes up very easily.  I drive it off with guidance from DW.

We use 1000# straps around the tires to hold it down and don't have any issues with that system.

Our total los time is about 1 hr. & unload time 40 min.  I take my time when doing this.  It could be done quicker but I'm usually not in a big hurry.

Things I would change are:
1. Placement of hold down D-Rings.
2. Size of bracket for "snatch block" (it's the heaviest part)

We've been closely examined by a Colorado State Trooper at a rest stop while we waited for a tire repair.  He spent 30 min going over the whole system of how we loaded it, tied it down and unloaded it.  End of story is we were told that we were very smart in how we were doing things.  He thought we had given safety the place it needed, 1st and foremost in
what we had done.

We were recently followed by a Texas Trooper and photographed extensively when we were bobtail with the car loaded.  When we stopped for dinner, he just continued on.  I had to assume that there weren't any questions about what we were doing.

Larry Herrin built the bed for us.  It was the first he did like this and did it all without seeing the Smart.  He did a great job and I'm very pleased with how it all turned out.

A few years ago if someone had told me I might like one of these little cars I would have laughed but they seem to grow on you.  I looked at a new one on display at the KC airport last year and was impressed by the leg room for such a short wheelbase.

As I stated in my original post, the 8' long, 4x4, street legal vehicle I really want just doesn't exist but you guys have convinced me the Smart is the most practical way to go.  Maybe an all wheel drive Smart will pop out on the market some day.  My bed build will continue with the Smart in the plan.

Thanks everyone and have a great day.
Lee

BTW, the Smart is built like an egg, everything that is silver is part of the frame.  They call it a Tridion Safety Cell

SuiteSuccess, on Dec 3 2010, 05:02 PM, said:
is there enough room in the "package compartment" to carry two sets of golf clubs in carry bags?

Nope. You could get them in if you folded the passenger seat, but then you would not need two sets.  Problem is the width, it will take a couple of suitcases or 5 or 6 bags of groceries.

If she is really high maintenance,  I might suggest taking two sets of clubs.  I think you get my point....

On the other hand I was a railroad conductor for 42 yrs. and BIG trucks like yours are no match to the train either.  Trust me, them things have way more tons than you do.  It was meant as a thing to look at, and I had no clue it was 2 yrs. old.

Guess the Smart car is different though!!!

I don't criticize the choice Smart owners have made, it just wasn't the choice for me.
Link to article

In over 46 years of driving a vehicle like in my avatar.  I have yet been in my first accident (knock on wood).  Both the Smart and my vehicle are a 2 person vehicle.  My vehicle has a small MPG advantage.  But less CCC.

Always ware a helmet and carry a rain suite when driving one like mine.

I did have the #4 Corvair in the list for a short time.  After someone in my same town, got killed in one by a guard rail going through the front of it.
My DW at the time made me trade it off for a full size vehicle.

I'm no way responsible for the facts in the list I posted a link to, nor know how they came to be, who made them etc.  But a Google search will come up with those and other similar result's.  I had even thought about getting a Smart for a toad myself.  But the almost year wait to get one at the time and my sometimes needing a 4 passenger vehicle.  I bought a 08 HHR for almost the same price (17.8K) with a 172HP 2.4L engine, leather heated seats, electric sun roof, 17" Chrome wheels, AC, 57.7 cu ft. for storage.  That pulls 4 down with a switch on one fuse.  OH! it also has a AC.

Your experience can be different and nothing is wrong with that.

The D in the DW above doesn't mean dear, darling or anything like that.

That's WHY they call them SMART cars I guess

So....pray for me then will you!

My new neighbors told me how they would never be caught driving something as unsafe as a Smart.  She told me how her husbands F250 could flatten my Smart easily, while he laughed...just before they and their friends left on their Harley's.  A week later I parked BART in my front yard for the first time.  When she saw it she came over to tell
me the sign said "No trucks" on our road.  I advised her that a) the sign said "NO through trucks over 10,000lbs," that BART wasn't a "through" anything since my house was his destination, c) BART was a motor home and not a truck anyway and d) how I would never be caught driving something as unsafe as their F250 and that BART could flatten her F250 easier than it could flatten the Smart.

Both elderly couples across the street love BART.  They come out to watch me load and unload the Smart every time.  The woman with the HoverAround scooter wants to race and has offer to give the Smart a head start.  The bikers next door on the other hand .. oh well, they are moving anyway.  Maybe some old folks will buy their

We built our Smart Car Bed on the Volvo in the early summer 2010 and have taken several trips with the Smart loaded.  The full build and videos of loading and unloading are on my blog at RVbuddys.blogspot.com.  There is a lot more full build pictures on rvbuddy.Smugmug.com.

After watching all the unprecedented ice breaking of this whole area by the aforementioned Smart car carrying pioneers, I decided to start simple but flexible for future expansion.

To down dress the obvious 106" length of the 451, I followed Red Dog's idea of a wider bed.  His is 105" wide and he has had no challenges after several coast to coast and Canada to Mexico trips over the past 4 years.

Mine is 102" and does not stick out wider than the step fairings.  I drive on and off (see the videos) and other than regularly forgetting to blow the air bags to load (does make a little noise when the body pan scraps) have had no problems, yet.

As for the clutch issue, it really is not an issue.  One does not start off on the ramps.  It is advisable to line up, back up and pull up full length on the ramps with a spotter watching and then check alignment of wheels, angles, etc.  Back straight down the ramps, make adjustments and do it again until you are straight on and aligned like you want.  There is no reason to rush this process as one can always load it somewhere else if conditions or circumstances make it a push situation.

Once alignment is squared away with the ramps and bed and truck then an idling-off start from several feet back gets the car going and the clutch fully engaged before heading up the ramps.  It only takes a little practice to get "onboard" before touching the brake and after that the car is pretty level on the bed for final adjustments so no real clutch slipping is ever done to load or unload the car.  Coming off is better with it in neutral than in a gear or reverse, just because of the hill-holder complication.  Being able to load/unload from either side makes it a lot more flexible and easier to match the circumstances at the time.

The ramps I chose are 12' and it is not usually difficult to find places that are at or above the plane of the truck tires.  This was a prime reason for designing it to Load/unload from the curb side as most curb height's offer at least 4" or more of rise for the foot of the ramps.  I also picked ramps that are 19" wide so there is a lot of working width to accommodate the different wheel straddles of the front and rear axles.

I go into this and a lot more in the blog entry if you are interested.

My biggest concern was safety, second was convenience and third was cost to get to a usable and reliable solution.  I am happy with the results and they have all been met though my original guess at overall cost was a little low, it was not outrageous for a first time build.  I have the option to add a winch if I find it is useful.  I can foresee conditions that could make it advisable to have one.

Enjoy the process.  I guarantee you will be thrilled with the results.

But I will leave this topic alone and just read.  Guess its just better that I just not post on this topic because I haven't got a Smart car or HDT.  But I do have a large 5th wheel and a little Ford 350 dually.

Someday maybe..............................

We all should let it go, but that is hard to do!  So post away and don't worry!

I have heard if you water that F350 everyday it can grow up to be an HDT!  It worked for me!  (Was a Chevy though)  Oh no, there I go starting yet another dreaded debate!!  NOT!
Bill

Jack
I would definitely look into the Smart car for getting around.  You can crash in anything and it will hurt, kill or you might get lucky and walk away.  If its your time then it don't matter what your in, on, around or
whatever it will just happen.  Its a great choice for the HDT for sure.

And that's my take on it......................

Have fun all and enjoy this world of RVs!!!!

Like Ute's accident, that should have been the end for her but she is doing just fine today.  When your time is up it probably won't matter much what your in.
JMHO
David

Nancy's standard reply is "I would not want to get hit in anything!"

But as Bill noted, after a while we get just a wee bit defensive.  Fact is I looked into the safety aspects very carefully before I bought a Smart.  I am a firm believer in accident avoidance and things like traction control, stability control, and active brake assist only added to the appeal of a full encapsulated frame and four airbags.  I am not the least nervous driving the Smart - I only maintain the attitude that I have always had: Every other driver on the road is out to kill me and they can't drive for diddly.

Drove the Smart to and from work for over a year in heavy traffic on a major highway and city streets.  Never any issue with feeling uncomfortable.  I do try to stay away from large vehicles in the case they can't see me.  Would I like a larger vehicle, sure.  But, no load on the truck and keep the rig down to reasonable length.  Not interested in double towing for lots of reasons.  So when someone asks me how I like the Smart, I say just fine, it fits on the truck!
Bill

And I gave up on watering the F350.  It only took a few calculations to realize that it would not turn into an HDT before it turned into a pile of rust and rubber.

As for the well-meaning but sometimes ill-timed comments from those that have not yet stepped up to the plate to bat....... batter up!