My First Trip Hauling the Smart!

8/2/2015

My First Trip Hauling the Smart!

Okay, so it was a couple weeks ago...

Donnie Barnes
13 April 2010
11:39 PM
I'm tardy sending this report, but I've been busy pitching my new TV show idea to cable channels.  I call is "JW vs. Z."  It's sort of a "Man vs. Wild" meets "Wrecked" meets "UFC Unleashed." *chuckles*

Aaaaaaaanyway...

I did finally use the Volvo to haul a race car in my gooseneck trailer a few hours down the road with the Smart on the bed.  About 45 minutes of the trip was on two lane highway in the middle of nowhere in South Carolina.  Let me tell you, the amount of people pointing and yelling at people to "look!" was amazing.  Pretty hilarious, actually.

Then at the track I got a lot of "how do you unload that thing???"  Then I got a lot more finger pointing just driving the Smart around nowheresville, SC.  Then it came time to load.  Had to cross my fingers a bit because there was one last little hiccup needing attention on the loading (the last of a few small problems with Henry's fabricator), but everything went fine.  Well, my loading time was almost doubled by the fact that it was raining a bit while I was loading and I have yet to put grip tape on the loading surface.  I was able to run the car up on the outstretched deck, but I had to get enough of a running start that it bounced back off the chocks about two inches and while that was "close enough" to strap it down with all four straps, it wouldn't let me put the rear chocks in place.  But those aren't *completely* necessary for loading, so I hoisted it up, unstrapped it, moved it forward, and then re-strapped it down.  Without any grip tape it just spins the rear tires at that angle when wet.  It's *just* soft enough that when dry it would move on up without seeming to slip the clutch much.  With some more grip I think it'll be fine.

One thing I don't think Henry or I ever thought of was the fact that I might have to load/unload on dirt/sand (I throw in "sand" because that's what the entire state of SC is, I think). Fortunately that hit me before I left, so I threw some car loading ramps in the trailer that I had laying around (6' 2x10's).  I was able to make them work, but they weren't long enough to be completely friendly.  Now trying to figure out my easiest option for hauling something that will always be with me in the case I have to unload or load on dirt.  Without the wood we'd be digging ruts and getting in binds, I think.

I'm tempted to add some sheet steel to my other ramps that I use for rear loading, but they're heavy as heck as it is.  Hmm.

Anyway, it's working out pretty great so far.  I can see the Smart in both mirrors and it seems to ride just peachy back there.  My trailer looks like it's floating on air thanks to the ET Hitch.  I'm a happy camper.

Oh, and how does the Volvo do?  Well, let's just say I don't think much about the Volvo.  It just does what it does and does it so well you don't even know it's there.  Except for that damned passenger seat squeak when I have no companion.  It's a long reach to let all the air out of that thing while driving.
Donnie

hjsdds
14 April 2010
10:47 AM
Donnie
I'm glad my "invention" is getting exposure.  You are right, the rollers will not work in sand, there is just too much downward pressure and the footprint is too small.  Different rollers could be installed there, but there is limited space there and I don't think anything other than low inflation balloon tire would work in sand.  Modifying the existing ramps might be the best solution.  I know they are pretty hefty bit you would not have to cover them the full length.  Measure the distance the platform rolls along the ground from touch down to stop and cover that length on the ramp.  My suggestion would be an expanded metal, I think it would be sufficient with the spanners from side to side.  Remember that the distance the platform will travel will be longer on top of the ramps since it will start rolling sooner (thickness of the ramps), also the final loading angle will be shallower (would help with loading).  Do you still have the "expert" working on the other issue, give me a call.

Squeaky seat, I had two of these that sounded like two donkeys in heat.  If you pump the seats all the way up you will see two grease fitting in the horizontal tubes.  They took quite a bit of grease but now the "donkeys" are quiet.
hjs

Jim Hicks
14 April 2010
01:18 PM

Donnie Barnes, on Apr 13 2010, 11:39 PM, said:
Without any grip tape it just spins the rear tires at that angle when wet.

Line-X or a similar product may be an alternative. Just a thought.
Jim

hjsdds
14 April 2010
04:08 PM
Donnie
I would stick with Line-X or Rino, some of the "off" brands (like the one I have on my truck) are very slippery when wet, which wouldn't help you.  I believe some of these can be modified with an additive to provide more traction.  One more item, some of the installers of these products will not guarantee the proper adhesion of the coating unless it's pure metal.  We had to sand off primer on one of our trucks before they would apply their product.
hjs
Donnie Barnes
14 April 2010
04:20 PM
I'm a cheap ba$tard these days.  We had some grip tape laying around from another project, so that's what it's getting for now.  I figure I can replace that stuff every few years for a LONG time for less than the price of a good coating.  I might have it coated in a couple years, but not until I'm sure I've got all the tie-downs and holes and whatnot done that I'm gonna want.  Still need to get a motorcycle chock and tie-downs setup, too.  But, uh, I should probably own a motorcycle first.
Donnie
hone eagle
14 April 2010
04:32 PM
Hey guys the marine store has "anti-skid" deck paints and even stick down cork-neoprene sheets product stands up to the marine environment, tropical sun ,salt etc. etc.
Jim Hicks
14 April 2010
06:06 PM
I can vouch for the Marine application deck non skid.  Works great on Submarines and Aircraft carriers.
Greyhorse
15 April 2010
01:31 PM
No pics of everything loaded up?
Donnie Barnes
15 April 2010
08:02 PM
I just added one to the end of the gallery in my signature.  Henry posted a few back on delivery day in another thread, but I don't have it handy.

Henry
The last "fix" seem to be working.  Instead of cutting that sprocket off and re-welding it perfectly centered, we just added a dynamic chain tensioner.  Basically a big spring with a piece of delrin on it that rides in between the sprockets keeping the chain pushed taught.  Seems to work perfectly.  We probably just prolonged the "real" fix, but we'll see how this goes.

I honestly think I could sell tickets to the loading of the Smart at the race track.  Everyone wants to see it.
Donnie

hjsdds
16 April 2010
08:05 AM
A tensioner is a perfectly good "fix", I am more "focused" of the some sort of redundancy or fail safe on the cable system.

Here's the sequence:



hjs

Jack Mayer
16 April 2010
09:52 AM
Henry
I sent you an email through the forum...not sure where that goes...my address in my contacts failed....
Jeff- C IL
16 April 2010
10:55 AM
Donnie:
I'm totally with Henry on this one--a chain should have a tensioner to keep up the slack as it wears and stretches anyway.  I'd say your fix is a keeper!  As far as the rolling of the rollers on soft ground....may I ask why a couple wood 2x10s the approximately. length wouldn't work?  Simple, cheap, and easy to throw on the deck under the Smart.  Or use some "Trex" deck "engineered wood"?
hjsdds
16 April 2010
11:39 AM
Jack
The email link in the forum had the old email, I changed the email but in case it's not active it is hjszmyt at gmail dot com
hjs
1Rod
16 April 2010
12:24 PM
Would be great to see that in person and watch it work.  Is there a patent on the design?  Would like something like that for my Goldwing.  Less than a week till I go see the truck.  Maybe I will be actually working on something soon.
Rod
Jack Mayer
16 April 2010
03:33 PM
That is one SWEEEEET lift.  It can not be cheap to do, though. I wonder if production prices could get it lower once all the kinks are worked out.  I would LOVE to have one.  But I am likely restricted to ramps.  I live on a tight budget.  Would not even call it a beer budget.  More like a water budget - swamp water at that.
Tim / Roseann
16 April 2010
06:30 PM
Looks cool. I'm sure it draws a big crowd when loading or unloading.

I have a couple of question though.  Why did you chose to load from the driver's side and not the other side and also what's the back-up unload process if the lift fails?

hjsdds
16 April 2010
07:14 PM
There are some serious mechanical and hydraulic components under the deck with the anchoring points down between the rails.  The only place where we could anchor the system was on the right side of the drive shaft which meant that the loader had to go to the left (street side).  Even with that we had to reposition lots of airlines and harnesses "to make room"  for the tipout arms.  The forces involved are substantially in excess of the weight of the car (1,600 lbs.), there is really no way to "manually" crank it if something fails.  As with any high power machinery if it fails you have to fix it to "get going again."

The lift is the first one and only one like that in the world, Donnie knows he has a "prototype."  There are few minor issues which you always discover with a "prototype" and we are working on them.  I appreciate a fact that Donnie gave me a chance to stretch my engineering prowess to design and build something like this.  Donnie being an engineer understands this, on the other hand I wouldn't do it for someone who doesn't understand this and would whine that he paid for something that "isn't perfect."  I'm proud of the fact that "right out of the box" it turned out pretty good.
hjs

Donnie Barnes
16 April 2010
07:38 PM
Oh, it definitely would, and that's what I did just yesterday.  But I don't have an easy way to tie them down under the Smart, so I'd have to add that.  I have those big nice metal ramps for rear loading in a big nice storage compartment, though, so for the few times I need them I'm hoping to let those pull double duty.

Thing is that platform moves quite a bit.  You need around 8' long ones, really, especially since it's nice if they stick out a foot or more for the car to drive onto them to "soften the blow" a bit as it goes on because it's now 2" higher thanks to the boards that the Smart has to climb in a relatively short distance of that folding flap.

For the record, I don't think Henry is being fair to his fabricator on this one.  This wasn't a project they enjoyed doing, for some reason, which meant they drug it out a LONG time.  And once finally pressured (for a variety of reasons) to get it out the door, they cut some corners on some of the sliding deck items.  So while it "worked" out of the box, there were a few things to fix to make it "right" that were NOT engineering issues.  They were simply poor fabrication.

I don't know the extent of Henry's business association with that particular fabricator any more, but suffice it to say that I don't think Henry would consider sending THIS kind of project to him again.  That said, if anyone were interested in one of these then I have a local shop that I believe could get it done right the first time.  Henry has worked with them since then, too, so I believe it would be a good arrangement for all (especially since they'd be able to access mine to have something to go by).

Rodney
I'm planning to add the stuff needed so that it can load a Goldwing, too.  Watch for more pics.  I don't have one, but my Dad does, and often uses my big rig to take race cars places for me.  Would be cool if he could take his bike and ride while doing it.  He is proud of the fact his Goldwing has "never been trailered", but this isn't a trailer, so he could still say that.

Henry
I'm now on my second PM asking where the straps came from that tie down the Smart wheels.  Care to post that source?  They just showed up with the lift for me, so I'm no help to all the fine folks asking.

Jack I'm still waiting on the next person to want a lift seriously enough to ask for the quote.  I do think the next one could be built cheaper than what I paid for mine, but how much I'm not sure.
Donnie

Tim / Roseann
16 April 2010
07:44 PM
One other question.  Where did you get the wheel straps?

I look forward to seeing it in operation at the HDT rally in October.  I too enjoy pushing technology to new operations.  I've been involved in "1st of it's kind technology" before and it is exciting.  Congratulations!

Donnie Barnes
16 April 2010
07:54 PM
Hahaha. Well, unless the rally is coming to me, you probably won't see it in October.  I'm sort of retired, but not like the rest of the folks here.  I'm 37 and am into these things to feed my racing habit, not my fulltime RV habit.

While I know I'd be 100% welcome at the Rally, I'd also be a bit out of place. *cough*  That said, if Henry will send me a Binkley head and the bits I need to convert my hitch from a gooseneck to a fifth (which I'm happy to pay for, Henry!),  I'd gladly let someone swing by here on their way to the Rally and just swap trucks (I'm sure I could live without the rig for a week or four in October, especially if whoever is swapping has a heavy duty TAG hitch on their truck!) and take it and my Smart out there to show off.  The only catch is Henry has to fix it if it does happen
to break while out of my possession.
Donnie

Russ Barnes
16 April 2010
09:50 PM
Donnie, those photos really show off the ease and great feature of this unloader so please don't take this as a negative comment because Henry did a great job on the design and execution; for some newcomers reading this remember this is the shorter 450 series Smart.  It fits crossways and is shorter than 102" so it can be flat and legal.  If you chose the '08 newer and longer 451 then Henry would need to either let you overhang by 4" or attached the car tipped.  I only wanted to mention this because not everyone recognizes smart models and I know some of you don't know enough about smarts to know it is a little more difficult to get service or parts for the '06 and older.  Some will risk the width limits and you still would be narrower than your mirrors.  However a positive for the 450, besides the shorter length is that you can get a diesel powered version from Canada.

Don't shoot the messenger, I just want everyone to have eyes wide open before finding out the hard way someday.

hjsdds
17 April 2010
07:22 AM
Donnie I'll get you one of the newer "Mark's" heads.  Swapping heads on an ET is a bit more involved since I mount them differently (than the competition), there are bearings involved, hardened shaft and I double lock it in place.  But once done, anyone with mechanical aptitude can do it competently.  I will check on the source of the straps and post it.  Donnie's ET sits lower than others (on the bottom of the rail) hence the pinbox would have to be lowered on a typical fifth (about 3 inches), it would work with my fifth (my ET sits on the bottom), also his truck has both electric brakes and BluDot actuation.  My rig could be pulled with his truck although there might be a problem in corners, Donnie's deck comes up 8 inches.

Jack
If you want this deck, you will need a new truck, you need a tandem, I'm not sure if it can be built on a beer (or swamp water) budget but it could be built for lower than Donnie's cost.  We've learned a lot and it would go much smoother.  The fabricator that Donnie mentions has the skills, aptitude and shop to repeat it and I would certainly help him.  Besides I have this pile of gorgeous SW drawings that took probably close to 1000 hours to generate (I lost track), it would be a shame not to take advantage of them.
hjs

Jack Mayer
17 April 2010
08:45 AM
Why would I need a tandem truck??  Why not just extend the frame on my current truck?  Is the axle position the issue?  Surely, if a tandem will do it, then the singled truck should have even "more" space for componently at the frame.  Weight should not be an issue with a Smart, even with the extra lift structure.  So why a tandem?

As to the width - I personally would use a 451 Smart/ I HAVE to have service available for it, and it is very difficult (impossible most places) to get a 450 serviced.  This would NOT be a "hobby" car - it would have to run and be fairly trouble free.

Johnontheroad
17 April 2010
08:57 AM
Comment from the peanut gallery, and a retired, non-practicing engineer at that:

If you're going to all that trouble to build a loader, and the length of the Smart is an issue, why not equip it with a rotating plate, like the SFO trams?  Load the Smart in position, release the locking pin, rotate 90 degrees and voila length is no longer the issue it is today.  Might even open it up for more short cars, like maybe a diesel VW Rabbit or similar.  Looking down most of today's cars they are all egg shaped anyway so corner swing may not be an issue.

Just a thought, I think you guys do an awesome job and I enjoy reading about it.
== John

MLC
17 April 2010
09:09 AM
Jack I originally moved my axle to midway between the axles.  When I checked the weight I only had about three hundred pounds capacity on the front axle.  I moved the axle to the original front position and the bed(with generator) added 5500 lbs. of weight.  It ended up with about a thousand lbs. of front axle capacity.  This was on a 770 so may not apply but something to consider.  This may be something to use Marks bed calculator on.  If you don't use the truck bobtail it may not matter.  Just something to consider.
Mike
Bluenoser
17 April 2010
10:54 AM
What considerations are your referring to regarding the use of it in bobtail configuration?
hjsdds
17 April 2010
11:00 AM

Jack Mayer, on Apr 17 2010, 02:45 PM, said:
Why would I need a tandem truck??

With tandem we didn't worry about weight, we just built it.  I didn't have a chance to weigh it during my "delivery trip."  Maybe we could persuade Donnie to weigh it with the Smart on it to "let us know."  As Mike says, using Marks "calculator" would be prudent.  You'd have to stretch the frame to make it happen.  We lengthened Donnie's frame 20".  The mechanism would fit in the singled truck, but your nice body would have to "go".
hjs

Russ Barnes
17 April 2010
02:42 PM
John
The problem with the turntables is that to again try to meet the highway laws, most states limit the overall RV length to 65', a few states longer and a few states shorter.  Unlike the license laws regarding CDL's, length regulations are a state to state issue.  My T2000 with the fairings removed, a smart sideways (63-65"), minimum space to nose of Teton at 54" (to allow for changing terrains) and my 39' Teton from center of pin to the back ladder measures about 39' so I am about 63'.  Jack has a really cool, New Horizons 42' home and so if (individual choice to individual choice) he wanted to be legal then 1) he couldn't mount a new smart crossways and be flat or 2) he couldn't mount the smart (or any other motor vehicle) lengthways. But we each have to make up our mind if we will bend the rules, many do, most never get any hustle, but I think for anyone new to read these posts at least the facts need to be on the table so they can make their own minds up.
Russ
Jack Mayer
17 April 2010
05:58 PM
Russ
You are right - all the facts should be in these posts so that when they are re-read the info is there.  Since I am now towing doubles, going to a Smart sideways is WAY better
.
Henry/Mike
I have no issue with front axle weights.  I have a "baby" engine, so I am not even close on the front axles with the 610.  So no issues there.  But you are right - the entire bed would have to go.  I would probably sell the truck as it is and build a new one.  It would not be worth it to rebuild just the deck.  But I got no bucks, so it is a moot point.
Donnie Barnes
17 April 2010
06:44 PM
Also note that I have no idea what my wheelbase is.  And to be even more clear, when Henry says we "stretched the frame" he means straight out the back.  My truck is still the "stock" wheelbase.  THAT SAID, I *believe* my truck is an oddball.  It's a 670 that was ordered "long", i.e.. on a 770 frame.  So it's got around a foot of extra length between the cab and rear wheels than most.

You'd never fit the bed without at least what I have in terms of length there -or- singling long.

With the midrise cab and the small engine you might be able to get away with a single long configuration and not get overweight, I don't know.  While the Smart is just under 2k pounds, you gotta remember that this lift is VERY heavy itself.  I'd guess it's another 2k, anyway, and that's not including the rest of the bed.

As for the "bobtail" consideration above, I believe what the poster meant was that when you extend out the rear of the frame and put your hitch back there, once you attach your 5er you are levering *some* weight back off your front axle.  How much?  Depends on your pin weight and how far back it is and how long the truck is.  This is where DIYGuy must be consulted with those numbers.
Donnie

Jack Mayer
17 April 2010
06:56 PM
My hitch is about 38" behind the rear rubber.  With 5000lbs on the pin it unloads my front by about 680 lbs.  That's with the old rig.  The new one is a little heavier, but I don't remember how much it unloads the front.
hjsdds
17 April 2010
08:25 PM
With an N-14 or an ISX there isn't that much margin on the front axle (and only a pair of tires), thousand pounds give or take.  No problem for bobtailing truckers, at most they might have a small drom box behind the cab for chains and tools.  This crowd however does funny things with HDT.  We remove rear axle and commercial hitch, this increases the front weight by removing the counterweight effect of the those two items behind the tag axle.  We put heavy decks on the trucks (and tool boxes) with majority of the weight in front of the rear axle.  We put huge drom boxes behind the cab and load them up, we put motorcycles and cars behind the cab.  Granted, we put hitches BEHIND the rear axle.  Anything forward of the rear axle transfers weight onto the front axle.  Closer that
weight is to the cab, bigger percentage of it falls on the front.  Anything behind the rear axle subtracts from the front.  So running bobtail with all kinds of loads near the cab can be dicey if you have a heavy engine up front and "regular" axle and tires.

Hitching up the fifth "fixes" that situation.  That 5,000 lbs. tongue weight few feet behind the rear axle does wonders for offloading the front end.
hjs

Bluenoser
17 April 2010
08:37 PM
That was a mighty fine answer - thank you!
hjsdds
17 April 2010
09:10 PM
John
Smart is the shortest thing out there at 8 feet or just over it (other than weird things or motorcycle conversions).  The so called "short cars" are surprisingly not that short (there is a list of them in the resource section), 12 feet and over.  The VW Golf is 165 inches, almost 14 feet.  To carry "regular" short car typical rails extension (on a tandem) ends up at around six feet, with a Smart, less than two feet.  There was someone on the forum who was designing and building rotating car deck (love those engineers), anyone know what happened to that project?  As for this loader I managed to get the proverbial 5 pounds of ........ into a paper bag. Adding more complexity like a rotating deck would definitely burst the bag.
hjs
Jim Hicks
18 April 2010
01:09 AM
Henry
I was asking about this rotating car idea last week.  My thought was if I was putting a smart and a Goldwing side by side the footprint would be 106 inches by 101 inches.  Now if I rotate the two on a turntable and point them forward, now my width is 101 vice 106.  Meantime I am legal and only five inches longer.  I still think it is a great way to go,  IF you are willing to sacrifice the length.  You get the advantage of a sideways load, yet legal in width with the Gen II Smart.  I don't know if I want my truck that big though.  I am now rethinking to keep it simple, just haul the bike
and keep the truck short.  I managed to get in touch with Skipp Tamm and corresponded about his deck build.  He built one of these and the initial design turned the deck on a 10K sealed bearing.  That is until the bearing failed, and caused him much consternation.  He then redesigned to using a Teflon surface and is reportedly pleased with the setup.  I put his photos in my albums Skips TurnTable Deck.

I think it is simple enough to be effective.  After doing the math though,  I think I would rather take a 630 and keep it as short as possible with just enough room for a Goldwing, and perhaps a DROM, and allow for a long trailer without exceeding 65'.
Jim

Donnie Barnes
18 April 2010
06:18 AM
The other big problem you have is anything you add on top of what we have now is going to make it higher.  There's no wiggle room on that, because we used every trick in the book to keep this thing as close to the top of the frame rails as possible already.  So up is the only solution. Going up means further you have to go to get *down*, too.  We're sort of barely at the point you can drive the thing onto the platform now, so I'm just not thinking you want to do that with this setup.

And Jim, the other problem here is you need 106" plus some to do the rotating, and all that has to fit between back-of-cab and the first rear tires.  Gonna have to stretch the frame in the middle on all these trucks to do that, I think.  Maybe if you just singled long?  But then you have the weight problem again, I fear.
Donnie

Russ Barnes
18 April 2010
09:56 AM
Jim
Just keep in mind that during rotation you need to allow for the corners to swing an arc.  So the effective length would be longer for a turntable than just what they are when at the 90 degree axis.  Maybe if you rotated it
and then slid it forward to lock, but all that keeps making it more complicated.  I know how frustrating it can be to package all this in 65 ft. and have the DW happy with what she cares about - "how big is our home?"  I really admire what Henry did on Donnie's rig, I spend many long hours trying to automate my unloading, but other parts and pieces kept getting in the way or loosing storage space down below so I decided that a fixed incline and ramps like Robb has followed the K.I.S.S. theory and am doing that. Just like most things there are many options and give
and take items so keep on brainstorming.
Jim Hicks
18 April 2010
02:55 PM
Donnie / Russ,
Good points on the height as well as the corners on the rotation.  I think I have the height problem figured out, but am not sure.  As far as the corners go with to adding length, that is certainly a problem.  I did identify that it added length, and was too lazy to do the TRIG.  Sliding things forward after rotating or moving vehicles forward after rotating adds complexity, time, money etc.  All in the name of a few inches.

I really like the idea of a sideways smart, but am not comfortable with being over width.  The sloping car at 30 degrees seems to be an alternative, but it too seems awful extreme.  I have plenty of time to fret over this, but have come to the conclusion to KISS.

As far as I am concerned the Goldwing takes precedence. The DW agrees. In the spirit of KISS, I am currently leaning toward a short truck, with only the Goldwing on the back.  Perhaps a VN 630 or VN 430.  That will keep the cab length as short as possible.  Then on the back allow 41 inches for the bike, 54 inches for clearance in front of the pin, and DASIT!  This should allow me to step up to a 42' trailer.  A 36 - 39 should be no problem.  I still have one hair brained scheme for a smart Goldwing Stacker, but it has some bugs in it.  Back to working on the bugs.

Despite all of the jokes about being the first on the scene of an accident the COE seems like a viable alternative.
Too bad they don't sell these in North America. With a BBC of less than 88 inches, it would certainly reduce the
overall length of the rig.
Maybe, I will start studying the Argosy.

Donnie Barnes
18 April 2010
06:06 PM
I love the Argosy idea.  Some people hate it, though, particularly DWs. Why?  The climb in. Much worse than an aero cab.  The air steps are an option, but you can't find a truck WITH them, supposedly because the mechanisms were so sucky they broke too often so nobody ordered them.

Then there's the other thing that an Autoshift is the best tranny you're gonna get.  They quit selling them in NA before two pedal autos were very available.  Again, sadness.  Supposedly one can buy an Argosy with no drivetrain and put one in, but that option seems VERY complex, annoying, and likely not actually possible anyway for a variety of reasons.

And most Argosys were used for car hauling, which means most of them are now very worn out.  Best bet is a boat hauler, but those are hard to find, too.
--Donnie

Donnie Barnes
18 April 2010
06:15 PM
Oh, and I have partial weight information!  Partial because I was with trailer.  Still need to go do it without the trailer because I don't know my pin weight.  Anyway, it's good news.  I'm pretty sure I had around 225 gallons, maybe more, of fuel.  I was 8700 on the front, 20,080 on the drivers, and 9920 on the trailer.  I believe I probably had somewhere around 3,000 of pin weight, but I can't be sure.  Either way with my setup it sure didn't lever much off my front.

There was just one person in the cab and very little "stuff."  To summarize, it's a Volvo 670, still tandem with the drivers, D12 engine, FreedomLine.
Donnie

Desolation Roe
18 April 2010
07:24 PM
Cool. Nice numbers...

Do you happen to recall your length from the back of your cab to the rear of the deck?

hjsdds
18 April 2010
07:43 PM
The Smart deck has a length (or actually width since the Smart sits sideways) of 5 feet and 4.5 inches.  The rear deck (which a separate assembly) is 6 feet 10 inches long.

That's according to my "early "drawings which might have changed.

There is a short "mini deck" just behind the cab, maybe a foot wide.

All in all this is not a very long bed, only around 12 feet, but Donnie tows primarily tag or gooseneck which eliminates the swing problem.
hjs

Desolation Roe
18 April 2010
07:52 PM
Thanks Henry.  From the photos I thought it looked longer.
Donnie Barnes
19 April 2010
08:04 AM
Remember that my factory wheelbase is probably a little longer then normal (by the 15" or whatever a 770 is longer than a "normal" 670) and then the stretch out the rear of 20" is in there.

But no, it's really not a long truck.
Donnie

Tim / Roseann
20 April 2010
06:49 PM
Went and got weighed today with & w/o trailer. They are as follows:
With trailer & Smart.

Steer - 9600
Drive - 17260
Trailer - 14260

W/O Trailer & W/ Smart
Steer - 10600
Drive - 12860

4400# pin weight = 25% of total trailer 17,660#

I'll weigh the truck w/o Smart tomorrow

hjsdds
20 April 2010
08:07 PM
By the way Donnie, did you know that your truck has an air front suspension, pretty rare.  Also the Wabco diesel cab heater.
hjs
Donnie Barnes
20 April 2010
08:22 PM

hjsdds on Apr 21 2010, 01:07 AM, said:
By the way Donnie, did you know that your truck has an air front suspension, pretty rare.

Yeah, but only because the leveling valve has given some trouble up there.

Also the Wabco diesel cab heater.

I knew it was there, but I have no idea how to use it. Probably won't ever need it. *shrug*
Donnie

MsChrissi
21 April 2010
09:37 AM
Absolutely Brilliant Job Henry!