8/1/2015
To Hoppy or not to Hoppy? |
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| GeoLogger 20 May 2009 10:34 AM |
I have all the parts and pieces to wire the new connector for the fiver (have had them for several weeks - no time!) and hope to get a couple of hours over the long weekend to finally get it wired up.
I'm now wondering what the pros and cons are to using a Hoppy-type device for the interconnect? I know that most of you guys use one, but what am I missing - or risking - by connecting the trailer pigtail directly to the wiring from the truck? My plan was to just replace the existing receptacle with an RV receptacle, and rewiring accordingly. Jon shows a 'crossover' diagram utilizing the HDT receptacle and plugging in a jumper to an RV receptacle. (At least that's the way I read it) I guess I could reduce this all down to: Why should I use a Hoppy?? |
| Jeff- C IL 20 May 2009 11:05 AM |
First of all, I don't have a Hoppy, so I don't know other advantages. I would suggest it may depend on your truck. Newer trucks have more "sensing" going on which may require special stuff (and Hoppys don't work!)
I have my trailer plugged into (with a 4 pin WP T connector) the taillights plug on my '95 Volvo and it works fine, but I don't have LOTS of lights plastered all over the trailer either. If you want to run direct to the trailer connector, you can use a harness with (2) 5 Amp Diodes pointing from the turn signal wires in the trailer connector to the Brake lights wire. I personally can't see any reason to use the Hoppy, myself, but I don't have nearly the experience of Jon and others here. Another trick you might try is the "backup light" trick. If your trailer has dual backup lights, change out the lenses |
| Bill B 20 May 2009 1:05 PM |
This very topic came up at the ECR this weekend. I posted to Jon and he came back with this reply. ---
Sorry PSD and Henry for not sending it earlier - we had another 2" of rain and the barn got hit by wind and tore things loose. (SIGH) Trailer Wiring Adapter link to Tim's old circuit - Or do Jeff's diodes. Bill, look on Resource Guide Taillight Conversion for the link to the schematic - OR - Click Here to save yourself a second or two. BTW, this IS the schematic that Tim drew a few years back and the owner of that site just posted it on his site for one reason or the other. Possibly because last time I checked Tim had taken it off his site.. |
| Ray H 20 May 2009 01:35 PM |
GeoLogger I tried to use a Hoppy but due to my truck being a later model equipped with a light control module (LCM), it flat didn't like it. I did some of the things that Jeff listed above. I still built the terminal connector board that Jack shows on his website and mounted it in the left luggage compartment. Makes it easy to add something later and test individual circuits if anything happens. Slick idea and well worth the time. Without the Hoppy, I changed out the backup light lenses on the fiver to red. Then on the connector board, I simply jumpered the brake light circuit from the Volvo pigtail to the backup light circuit on the trailer. I then ran a long heavy gauge pigtail back to the trailer connector plug mounted near the rear of the bed. Everything works great and I can live without backup lights on the trailer. On the newer tractors, any changes you make to the lighting, you're going to get a fault. I had six superbrite LEDs lights (48 LEDS per light) installed in the custom bed, plus LED rear and side clearance lights. They worked but the drivers display panel let me know immediately that the LCM wasn't happy. A quick trip to the local Volvo dealer, a bit of reprogramming of the LCM, and the problem was cured. Your post shows you're in Chandler, AZ. If you'd like to take a look at my setup, I live just the other side of Phoenix in Buckeye. I'm currently in San Diego, but will be back in Buckeye day after tomorrow. Shoot me a PM. Ray |
| Ann N Gene 20 May 2009 05:35 PM |
I have gone through 3 Hoppys! If I were to do it again, think I would just pigtail off the truck taillights (don't need a Hoppy from there) and go for it. I KNOW, lot of guys think I am wrong on this and that you should not do this, and they MAY be right but I sure do not like the Hoppy (and yes I had the heavy duty model). You will just have to decide for yourself. Just my experience. Gene |
| GeoLogger 20 May 2009 06:17 PM |
Thanks Ray. If I have a problem, I'll check with you. I'd like to see your set-up anyway.
Hopefully I won't have a problem, I have a 2000 FL Century - pretty basic. |
| J.W. Morgan 20 May 2009 08:19 PM |
Gene, I have wired many truck beds and 5er plugs in the same manner and have NEVER had a problem. I did find it easier to swap the reverse lights on the 5er and use the commercial pigtail "adapter" for the little FL112. |
| Jeff- C IL 21 May 2009 08:00 AM |
PLEASE IGNORE MY PREVIOUS POST. Judd777 PM'ed me and pointed out that just using diodes causes the blinker to NOT work when the brakes are on. He is correct. I can't believe I never thought of that at all! Just when you feel smart... There is no way to use just diodes to route these wires w/o that happening. Can you believe there are actually places on line that sell adapter harnesses with the diodes in them--and this problem? I am attaching copy of a neat little circuit one of the forum members made up using 3 relays to do the job.
See the Resource Guide Taillight Converters. |
| 5th_Wheeler 21 May 2009 02:32 PM |
GeoLogger There are a couple reasons why I did and why I like the way the crossover wiring - OR - dual function wiring as I call it is done. Notes: Photos and schematics referred to are found in the Resource Guide Taillight Converters. First and foremost, it allows your truck to pull something other than a 5er or TT with working running lights, tail lights, brake lights, turn signals and back up lights if so equipped without having to re-wire anything again. If you have no intentions of ever pulling a commercial trailer again that utilizes the standard seven pin ASME commercial plug then you could substitute the seven pin ASME commercial socket that I generally install as a second socket on the rear of a truck for a six pin, five pin or even a four pin socket instead if you happen to own a trailer that is wired for any of those plugs. Secondly, there is no need to alter the OEM trailer wiring to the OEM commercial socket as you simply move the OEM ASME commercial socket and wiring from behind the cab into your water tight electrical compartment. Arguably, one could also wire up a variety of adapter pigtails, however, IMPO if you own another trailer with one of those pin configurations it's easier to do it this way from the get-go if you want to make your toter as versatile as possible...... Now to answer your question about Why To - OR - Why Not To use a Hoppy or Hidden Hitch tail light converter.. If you own a first generation Volvo VNL/VNM then there is no advantage to using either of the retail lighting converters if you would prefer making your own via TIM's "fttp" DIY trailer light wiring schematic that utilizes three Bosh style relays. As has been stated several times, the retail version tail light converters are out the door for those who own generation two Volvos. On a side note, like Jack, I'm a firm believer in ISOLATING your trailer's lighting requirements from your trucks electrical system unless your willing to take the risk of screwing up your trucks electrical system...... |
| Jack Mayer 21 May 2009 04:09 PM |
No real reason to use a Hoppy....use whatever method you want that your truck will accept (newer ones do NOT like you messing with their computer-controlled lighting, as noted above). But IMO you MUST isolate all external "stuff" from the truck. If you do not, then "how lucky are you feeling today"....because I guarantee you that some time you will regret mixing non-truck and truck electrical stuff....
Just my opinion - take it for what it's worth. |
| Jeff- C IL 21 May 2009 04:40 PM |
To everyone interested in the Hoppy Load issue for Series 2 Volvo VNs.
I was batting around this today while out planting corn (YES! ITS DRY ENOUGH!) I believe I could make a solid state converter box that would solve the cross wiring problems (like the Hoppy does) fairly simply. It would have the following characteristics: The only thing it wouldn't do is provide a "load" on the trailer lights plug. So, my question is, do the newer Volvos "squawk" about loading on the trailer lights, or just on the truck lights? With all the different trailers out there, how does it know what's "right" anyway if it does??? Second, Is there anyone who is interested in trying a prototype of something like this (if I get one built) on a late model VN? (BILL B---Got your's wired????) |
| Ray H 22 May 2009 12:08 AM |
Jeff Very temperamental with any changes to the actual truck lighting but can be changed in the LCM program. The only problem the trailer gave me was not actually the trailer. It was the Hoppy that it didn't like. Ray |
| GeoLogger 22 May 2009 10:45 AM |
Having worked with electronics for years, I can certainly see the value in separating the wiring for truck and trailer. Troubleshooting, etc. would be much easier. BUT.... We've all used pick-ups for years with the trailer wiring plugged into a connector on the back of our trucks, with very few problems. (at least I never had a problem - or anyone I knew) I'm just wondering why an HDT would have any more problems than any other truck.
I guess I'll stick with my original plan to just wire up a new connector for the fiver. I give all you guys permission to say "I told yo6u so!" if I have to go back and 'do it right' My '00 FL with minimal 'computerization', hopefully will avoid some of the problems that the newer models experience. I don't think my truck's that smart! |
| Bill B 22 May 2009 11:42 AM |
Jeff I'll play. Just starting on the wiring now. I was looking at the isolators in the schematics and the trailer wiring has separate fusing and drivers for them. Like the trailer wiring has a 40 amp maxifuse (position B8 (memory)) hot going back with 12v low voltage truck protection shutoff. I'll try to send the schematics. My version?? of the Volvo manual is web based and -- is not very friendly, good, frankly pretty _ poor. Loads very slow, hard to navigate, if it was for a machine of mine - vendor would being a do over, from scratch. Grrr.... |
| Jeff- C IL 22 May 2009 01:32 PM |
Bill B I'll see what I can do. My thoughts were to design a unit that placed *no* (i.e.. 1Mohm) load on the truck wiring at all. My concern is "will the new VN's trailer plug "work" if it doesn't see *any* connection?" It would essentially be like bobtail as far as the lights were concerned. Please PM me with schematics if at all possible and I'll put something together. No guarantees, but if you are willing to connect something up and try it, maybe we can solve some problems. If it works, it could be "packaged" for this app. Thanks, Jeff |
| J.W. Morgan 22 May 2009 06:54 PM |
Jeff, How about a water tight "adapter plug", in other words see if you can figure out on your WIA an adapter to plug directly in to the trucks commercial plug and be able to plug in the 5er and it work properly. I would pay for the first one, so when I move someone else's trailer I can have brake lights. |
| Jeff- C IL 23 May 2009 10:16 AM |
Pipe The only trouble with doing that is the 12V power to the "adapter". What I mean is, I may need a 10A 12V battery source for the outputs to the turn signals. If you are not already Maxing your AUX, this could work. I already have a fairly simple circuit worked out that does what we want: 1: Flashers always work 2. Brake light routed to the flasher lines, but not so flashers don't work 3. Total Isolation of truck outputs. There is no reason it couldn't be packaged into a sealed enclosure "in line." Only thing is it needs a constant 12V supply for the Hazard outputs and control circuitry. If the AUX is wired to the key, the hazards might not work when parked. Please advise, and tell me how long a harness??? Also, if interested, I have a couple used commercial 7 pin trailer harnesses (and hoses) that could be modified for this or "sold" as-is! Edit: Actually, on thinking about this, if you don't need isolation, a couple large diodes from each line (L,R Brake) to power the outputs (any line coming in could provide the power) might work. It would just drop your output voltage about 0.5V to the trailer lights. |
| J.W. Morgan 23 May 2009 07:43 PM |
Jeff, I am no electrician, but you have about 13.6v to 14.8 from a 160A alternator, so the voltage drop would be negligible for simple trailer lighting. There is always the 12v Aux wire to get the power straight from the plug. I believe this would solve the need for a Hoppy on the electronic trucks too. I have a hard time believing that it can "sense" different trailer lighting setups. If there was a "danger" in using the commercial plug for trailer lighting that could have an adverse effect on the truck, then why would they use it for a commercial trailer? I have wired in rotating beacons to the aux wire on several trucks and they have a high draw and have never tripped a CB. Anyway, on length of the proposed adapter, as short as possible. Just use your judgment on wire strain relief for the weight of the assembly and keep in mind that it will plug in to the socket at the back of the cab, then the RV plug will plug into it (Male commercial to Female RV) If you need to email me longjohncalls yahoo com is my personal acct. |
| Jeff- C IL 24 May 2009 06:58 PM |
Yea, why would you make a truck that complained every time you change trailers? But engineers (esp. software ones) are well known for making "non-real world" solutions....! If there was a "danger" in using the commercial plug for trailer lighting that could have an adverse effect on the truck, then why would they use it for a commercial trailer? "
Exactly! However, I understand that on the new VN's, the Flashers come straight from the computer. SO... If your trailer just happened to short out the flasher line and the breaker didn't work there is a "chance" of frying the computer $$$$$. I'd want isolation in this case, too! The Taillight circuit is a relay, and should be OK. If you need to email me longjohncalls yahoo com is my personal acct. I'll get in touch about any details, but a quick question: Which of these two arrangements would you rather have: A. Plug-2' wire-Small enclosure-1'wire-Rv socket. The enclosure would be an outdoor type electric box (single) and the RV socket would be free hanging. B. Plug-3'wire- enclosure with circuit and RV socket mounted in it. The enclosure would a NEMA type large enough to hold the RV socket. Your choice!!!! |