In a Big Bind What Do I Do Now?

7/28/2015

In a Big Bind What Do I Do Now?

Quasimotor
10 November 2006
10:58 PM
A few months ago I took our 5er to San Carlos, not a problem at all going in or coming out bobtail.  We've been down in our car and now I wanted to go fetch our 5er and drop off my boat.

I made it to 21 KM checkpoint and was told we needed a permit for the boat being over 15ft long.  So we go back to get a permit, and are then told we can't go in with our HDT.

Seems nobody knows why we had no issue going in before, but this time they are telling us our HDT is a semi, no matter what America calls it.  Mexican nationals are the only ones allowed to drive semi's in Mexico, and we would get our HDT confiscated if we proceeded.

WTF???  Did Mexico just take my 5er?  I'm sitting in a Wal-Mart parking (in Nogales) lot trying to decide wither to head home or try again in the morning.

Can anyone shed some light on this?  I feel like I just got ripped off for a 50K trailer.  And I doubt any of my friends with large pickups would be interested in them going into Mexico to deliver our boat or bring our 5er back.
Thanks
Jim

Lee Jacobs
10 November 2006
11:38 PM
Ohhhhh, Jim, you have my sympathy!  You've probably run into the same little weasel I ran into in April.  I'm thinking all the words that aren't printable to describe him!  OK, that's off my chest now let's get to your problem.

The law here says that HDT's ARE commercial semis.  Period.  When you came into Mexico with your HDT pulling your fiver, they accepted the truck because it was pulling your home.  But, now that you are attempting the same entry with the HDT pulling something other than your living unit, they're looking at the truck as a semi.  I learned the hard and very expensive way that arguing with the jerks (there! now I feel better!) is just a waste of my time.  I might suggest you run on over to Lukeville and try crossing again, but don't know anyone who has tried going through another border crossing after being turned away at the first.  Might work.  Might be a waste of time and fuel.  If it did work, then you'd still be faced with having to make two trips again when you want to take both fiver and boat back out at the end of your stay.

Mulled this over with Ken, who has spent far more time than me researching Mexico's laws and how to make them work for the average person, and his only solution at this time is for you to have someone go down with you in a p/u truck to pick up the fiver, haul it out and then try all over again, with HDT and fiver.  Then, leave the HDT in country until you're ready to leave.  Neither of us has any advice on the boat.  Unless you want to have someone else haul it to San Carlos for you.

I know, Jim, the whole thing stinks.  Same as me being refused entry with my van because my FM-3 had expired five days earlier, even though I had a 30-day extension on the FM-3, issued by Immigration, and even though bringing the van in with or without an FM-3 only requires proof of ownership and a major credit card.  Should never have happened the way it did.  That smart-a$$ed jerk cost me several thousand dollars by the time I got everything home and settled.  Guess you can tell I'm still fighting mad over it, huh?
Good luck, Jim
Lee

Quasimotor
10 November 2006
11:43 PM
Lee,
If I ran to Lukeville, wouldn't I still be crossing the 21 Km checkpoint?  I was fine getting into Mexico, it was the checkpoint that served as a roadblock.  They said they understood the truck was a MH in the US, but they also said I could loose it in Mexico.

I just want my 5er out, maybe I'll skip the whole Mexico deal, they must not want my tolls or revenue when I'm there much.

God I hope my Alfa is still there....who do i bribe?

Nobody likes my truck these days, neighbors, Mexico not even me much after all this.
Jim

dieseldan
11 November 2006
02:56 AM
I've always been afraid to take any kind of RV into Mexico for fear of confiscation or inability to return it to the USA - either due to corruption, some envious official making a power play at my expense, or some other sort of legal mix-up (including a no-fault accident).

I've heard and read too many "Tijuana jail stories" over my lifetime to risk having a successful trip with a rig so big, expensive, and attractive to the have-nots across the border.

This incident just confirms my gut feelings.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Jim.  Like Lee suggested - I think I'd take a pickup down and drag the trailer back across the border.
I wish you the best.  Keep us posted on how it goes.

Tetoner
11 November 2006
04:26 AM
Where is Vela1, Scott takes his truck down there all the time and he has a boat.  He should have some advice.  Sorry about your troubles.  I've always been scared of Mexico.  Hope you get it worked out.
Mike
Still Working
11 November 2006
05:29 AM
Bob Speckman is another one that has been to Mexico.  Don't know if he had any problems.
Bob Speckman
11 November 2006
05:31 AM
Its been a problem for several of us that travel Mexico with MDT/HDT.  They haven't confiscated anything yet, they just won't let your HDT into Mexico without a RV attached.  The easiest solution has already been suggested, get a friend with a pickup to go drag you Alpha home.

You could try another day or another border crossing but there are no guarantees.  We have been allowed to cross and denied crossing at the same border station on different days.

This is really no different than the experiences people have had towing doubles - its against the law in many states, but is only selectively enforced.  Some get warnings, some get tickets, some get towed and some never even get stopped.

Since you have crossed numerous times you have all the documentation and permits so it would not be difficult to keep trying at different times or different days. The easiest and safest way remains for you to have a buddy with a pickup go get it for you.

Wow, Larry we must have been typing at the same time.

Quasimotor
11 November 2006
07:41 AM
Well we parked in Wal-Mart in Nogales next to two 5ers last night.  I was hoping maybe one of them would swap trailers or something at least past the 21 km checkpoint but neither would or were going to San Carlos.

I guess I'll go home, and find a pickup.

This HDT thing is just becoming too big a pain in the ass.  My neighbors on me about it, the City, and now Mexico.  I might as well get a Dually and not have the headache.
Jim

Lee Jacobs
11 November 2006
08:05 AM
Jim
For your own peace of mind, we suggest you get a forum and phone chain going, and find someone who can go with you in their rig to pick up your Alfa.  Owner of the vehicle needs to go with it and present their ID and major credit card in the same name as on title or registration of the vehicle.  Also, if a bank holds title, they need a letter of permission to take the vehicle out of country.  All this I tell you just for precaution, to remind you because I think you're getting frustrated and flustered.  And, believe me, I know how that goes!!  Once you get your Alfa back on home territory, you can quit worrying about that part, at least, and then take a deep breath and decide what to do next.

Ken also suggests finding the web site of Rolly Brook (Brooke?) online because he has information on importing rigs.  I haven't read his site, so don't know what's there.
Good luck, friend!  Lee

Quasimotor
11 November 2006
08:41 AM
Lee,
Thanks for the info. I am going back to the border (our Side) and walking across.

I will see if anything can be arranged, I.E. bribe special permit etc., if that fails then homebound I am. I was
seriously considering retiring in Mexico, but if this is still the way things work I think I'll pass.

Shame they are just loosing all my American dollars I spend down there scuba diving etc. etc.
Jim

'Nuf Truck
11 November 2006
09:07 AM
Good luck with solving this dilemma.  Thanks Lee for the comment about the Rolly Brook website.  I looked it up and spent 20 minutes perusing, a lot of interesting stuff there.  www.rollybrook.com
Cal
D K.
11 November 2006
10:22 AM
Jim
I am not understanding why you feel your truck is the source of your problems? Mexico is the most crooked and worthless place I can think of to consider taking ANYTHING of value to, including myself or my family.  I'm sure many will disagree with me on this, but my experiences have been far from positive.  The sad part is that you will likely turn your frustration and anger towards your truck and dispose of it, rather than address the real issue, being it was your choice to go there Have you attempted to deal with a Mexican official such as a tourism or other federal agency that can trump the inspection stations arrogance?  My feelings for Mexico are beyond repulsive.  I spent far too many years dealing with their so called Federallies and jails while standing shore patrol duty in San Diego.  A $100 bill was more effective at getting a Marine who kicked the front teeth out of a Mexican citizen back to the US than any so called legal means.  Please don't take this wrong, but there is a reason the place is so cheap to "live" in and vacation in.  Enter at your risk and accept the perils you may face.  More than anything, I hope you can get a good Samaritan to recover your trailer with a pickup and put this behind you.

If you can't find a pick up owner or fellow RVer to bail you out, you might have success with contacting a load broker and request for a bobtail contract to the border from a Mexican truck driver.  It may be cheaper than you think when you look at the cost of just paying fuel both ways for a pickup truck plus a "thank you" hand greasing.

Motor31
11 November 2006
11:49 AM
Vela 1 and my self have taken our rigs into Mexico before and had no troubles at all.  Both of us got them stickered as PU's at the Mexican vehicle registration office.  We were both towing our trailers at the time when we hit the 21 KM point.  Scott's been back and forth several times but always with the trailer I believe.

FWIW Scott's boat (Vela 1) was sailed down to Mexico many years ago so no help in transporting it, sorry.

Quasimotor
11 November 2006
02:41 PM
Updated status...
Well, we tried again after talking with a few official people and unofficial people.  It seems that an HD is a semi in Mexico, no matter what it is registered as in the US.  They pull the VIN and go off of what it was produced as, not as what it is registered as.

However, on a brighter note, it seems that security is higher (officials from Mexico City are there watching the border right now and they are being audited) through the holidays to watch out for illegal importation of products for gifts and to sell in stores, just as our side is on higher alert for marijuana this time of year.  So the good news is that after the holidays, things should go back to "semi"-normal.

However, in the mean time, we are still going to try to get our 5er out so if anyone knows of someone in the area who is a full timer with a heavy duty dually and a 5th wheel hitch, we would be more than happy to compensate them for their time and fuel since we don't have any friends who have such a truck that we could borrow.

Thanks again to Lee, if you have links to any other forums, please send them my way so I can chain post this and pass on this request to others possibly in the area.

Thank you everyone for your help and support, it is appreciated.

ghillie
11 November 2006
04:00 PM
I hope it all works out for you Jim.  Thanks for the posts from Lee and the link from Cal.
Jack Mayer
11 November 2006
04:29 PM
Maybe I'm wrong about this, Lee would know better - but I did not think borrowing a truck was an option.  I thought you had to prove ownership at the border.
Toterman
11 November 2006
04:41 PM
I think the best Idea is hire a Mexican trucker to bring it to the border.

If that was an option, that's what I would do.
David

Lee Jacobs
11 November 2006
05:05 PM
You're right, Jack.  The vehicle must be registered in the name of at least one of the people crossing the border.  Unless it's a rental, and then you need a letter of permission from the company that owns it.  Same applies to vehicles titled to a lending company, even if the registration is in the name of the tourist.  You need a letter of permission from the OWNER of the vehicle.  Also, I'll mention again that the owner of the vehicle must show ID and a valid major credit card (debit is ok, far as I know) IN THE EXACT NAME AS THAT WHICH IS ON THE REGISTRATION or TITLE.  I tried using my debit card in my nickname, Lee Jacobs, and it was refused.  It was just by luck that I happened to have a credit card in my formal name, which is the name that is on both title and registration for our van .. or, I'd still be fighting to get it into Mexico.  Normally, I don't carry my credit cards, so under normal conditions, I wouldn't have had it with me.  Whew!!  Once I finally got the van and all of our things south of the 21K point, the grin on my face went all the way 'round my head!!

Banjercito's vehicle registration page:

MexOnline.Com - Border Crossing Information
http://www.mexonline.com/drivemex.htm

Wish I could wave a magic wand and get your HDT into Mexico, Jim, but everything I (we, too, because Ken knows more places to look than I do) points to the bottom line: an HDT is considered a commercial semi and no exceptions are made (except the one we know of, that they apparently look the other way when said 'semi' is hauling an RV).  I hope you can locate someone soon who will be able to go with you to retrieve the Alfa.

SKP HUGS, if they'll help at all!  Lee

Bob Speckman
11 November 2006
11:00 PM
On the lighter side, I had more problems getting my wife into Mexico than I did getting the Volvo in.

For some odd reason they found fault in the fact her name on the picture ID (Drivers License) did not match her birth certificate thus one of them was invalid.  Her drivers license is in her married name and obviously her birth certificate is not.

It took a trip to the "special guy" to get her entry papers approved.

You just never know what's going to happen at the border.  Every single crossing we have made has been different.  They have varied from a wave thru to over a hour of discussion but lucky for me all have resulted in entry.  I tried to cross in the commercial lane at San Luis and was refused, so I went to the RV lane and was allowed (after a lengthily discussion) the same day.

One thing I have learned from this thread is I will never leave my trailer in Mexico.  I had actually thought of doing that at one time.

motojavaphil
11 November 2006
11:56 PM
Almost makes you want to swim across the river!  Sorry you are having so much trouble. HDT's sure seem to carry some "baggage" with them.
Phil
Kathe
13 November 2006
05:56 AM
The issue of the title and the credit card must not have been relevant to this situation.  If so, the Temporary Vehicle Importation Permit (TVIP) paperwork would have the 5er listed on the permit for the HDT.  Trailers, motorcycles and ATVs are put on the same permit as the motorized vehicle hauling them.

So, does your 5er show up on your TVIP?  Maybe because you don't go very far into Mexico the paperwork is different.  But it would seem to me that talking to the appropriate officials would allow you to get your rig out.  I guess you didn't really research what you were doing before you left the 5er behind.  Call the closest Mexican embassy and go visit the ambassador.  Plead your case.  This can be done.  It will take some time...

I know you must be frustrated, as Lee was, but when you cross International borders things sometimes become a challenge.  People from other countries are treated by us in ways that would make you cringe.  As an example, I just met a tourist from South Africa who spent 37 days in a US jail because her visa had expired and she was blithely touring back from Canada to the US with a friend and was crossing the border.  She ended up being transported to Maryland and finally Arizona before she was released to continue her tour.  Her visa was not expired after all.

I would hire a US RVer who has the appropriate rig and is already near where your 5er is to haul it to the border, cross the border, and then you hitch up your rig and haul it from there.  If you do that, make sure the paperwork is all in order when you leave.  In other words, cancel any permits....

Now hear this!!!!  Mexico is a really scary place and you should not travel there!!!

dieseldan
13 November 2006
07:16 AM
Here's another idea - maybe impractical.

Maybe you could tow a 5er for another RVer who is going past the 21km checkpoint with your HDT.  They would follow behind you in their own pickup toter.

You could tow their trailer all the way to San Carlos (to stay legal) or stop and let them tow their own trailer to their destination while you bobtail to San Carlos - once past the checkpoint.

Another idea for expanding your possible number of sources for additional ideas or assistance (like another RVer already south of the border with a pickup or planning to cross into Mexico) would be to post appeals for help on other sections of the Escapees forums - like "Travel."

Search for the word "Mexico" and determine where the most discussion interest on that topic has been in the past.  I would post there.

Tailpipe
14 November 2006
11:56 AM
I spent a good 30 minutes this weekend at the Del Rio TX crossing talking with the American border patrol.  The decision we made was until we learn fluent Spanish and know the laws if we can not walk it is to far into Mexico for us.  I read your story and shared with my bride.  What a mess.  This story rekindles some of the old feelings when I traveled on the troop train from Frankfurt to Berlin in the 60's.
Good Luck to you.
vela1
14 November 2006
01:42 PM
Yep!
We always have the 5er hooked on when crossing the borders, both ways.

I talked to Jim on the phone the other night and gave him suggestions.  None that entailed "mordita."  That translates to the "little bite" or bribery.  That kind of thinking WILL get you into more trouble than you can imagine.

We sailed Vela from San Francisco in 1998, have a 20 year import that allows us to leave her in Mexico without our being on board.

There are commercial boat transporters available in San Carlos.
Scott, Barb, Mutley & Tinkerbell
95 Tandem Volvo TTES, N14/500, Super 10
2000 Alfa with Jeep XJ Towed
Homosassa, FL. Today
Satellite internet installer
Data storm user #1598
KF6KKG

turbothom
14 November 2006
02:31 PM
The mess is just about our government allowing it to happen.  My question is why do we worry about legal entry, when about 20,000,000 of them don't.  And after some of the story's I've been told, by amigo's, I'll never go own there.  Reminds me of New England.  16 year olds with M-16's on their shoulder, and in the army.  5$ and proceed.

Not me.  But I do have a 3500 Dodge with fifth wheel hitch.  If nothing else, maybe.  But I got a 44 mag that's seems to be stuck in the truck.  Any problem with that?
Preston

Lee Jacobs
14 November 2006
04:11 PM
On edit, I've removed my comments from this post because they were not pertinent to this thread.  Sorry, everyone. I normally do better at keeping on subject.

Safe and sane travels, everyone.... Lee

bstark
14 November 2006
07:26 PM
I think the idea is to get just as inventive as the border guys get!  Would going to one of the larger freight haulers destinations just this side of the border be worthwhile to find a Mexican driver with a couple of days "turn-around" wait and offer him a couple of hundred to "drive" your semi with you aboard across the border and past the 21K check-point to the nearest bus or taxi stand, drop the fellow off with the $200.00 in his pocket and proceed to pick up your trailer and return without (hopefully) getting the hassle of a semi without a trailer is a semi, is a semi, is a semi..

Being a Canadian who grew up with long guns used for hunting in the vastness of the Canadian wilderness, I fully empathize with those whose comfort zone includes a firearm of some sort close by.  The laws of whatever country we choose to travel in are to be respected and it is my belief that the traditional CUSTOMS of that country should be respected or at least observed as well.  NOW if we could just get that point across to the "millions" that come to this continent and want to change it!

Emery Nash
14 November 2006
09:48 PM
Jim
I don't know if you have gleaned some useful ideas from this thread yet.  I know it has been 3 days so you have either gotten over the shock and are on a direct tact to a solution or you are still wrestling with the whole thing and are still undecided.

I would vote with Toterman and suggest finding out if the only constraint is who is behind the wheel while it is running in Mexico.  If it must be a Mexican truck driver hiring one to co-drive you to wherever you want to go with whatever you want to take/get should be the simplest, if not the most satisfying solution so you can put the logistical side behind you and get on with your plans.

I don't think I have heard anything yet that says that this won't work .. just that it is an affront to many to have to
resort to it.

There must be some agencies available to hire a driver with references.. not everyone owns their own truck or drives only for 1 company and if this is as big an issue as it appears, there are plenty of US trucking companies that must switch out drivers for loads into and out of Mexico.

I am certain that there must be plenty of drivers that available for hire.  One just needs to find out who their brokering services are.

turbothom
15 November 2006
06:17 AM
Thanks Lee.. not to cause you anymore undue harm or anguish, the remainder of my reply will remain in the keyboard.

But I think it's good you love Mexico. I just happen to love the South a good bit more and will continue to support America, not Mexico.

Preston ..PS. thanks for all the advice.

Bob Speckman
15 November 2006
10:44 AM
Hey Jim if you hire a Mexican trucker make sure he has a brake controller and electrical wiring for a RV.  Insurance may not be a bad thing either.  From what I recall the trucks in Mexico aren't much, mostly old cabovers.  I am sure there are a few capable ones somewhere down there.
bstark
15 November 2006
09:42 PM
I would like to reiterate my suggestion to hire a Mexican driver to drive YOUR truck.  The truck can be owned by someone other than a Mexican but must be driven by a Mexican and in this case the owner is along for the ride with all of the title and insurance info.

Why wouldn't this work?

Once you've passed the 21K check point, you have no further need for the driver and can let him grab a cab back to wherever.  You continue on to hook up to your trailer and return with your residence attached.

KAYERIVERCITY
15 November 2006
11:52 PM
I'd rather spend time and money in Canada than Mexico any day.  Never had any problems in Canada that couldn't be taken care of on the spot and not by bribing anyone.  I never drink with Canadians.  I learned the hard way once in Florida and only once!.  They speak our language -if you want to speak Canadian just add an "Eh" on the end of the sentence and you are speaking Canadian.  Try that in Mexico.  I had a Friend die in Mexico because of a drug reaction in a hospital for a broken ankle.  Seems their pain Meds are not as refined as ours or least they have names that a pathologist recognizes.  Why we entered into business with Mexico is a mystery to me but I guess we are stuck with it now.  IMO
geofkaye
Enchalay
16 November 2006
07:47 AM
This may work

http://www.goitr.com/
They rent 1 ton pickups set up to pull a 5th wheel, and will allow travel to Mexico.  Looks like about a $600 dollar hit for a week with 600 miles free.

We have used one here set up for a gooseneck.  It was a brand new truck.  Nothing over a year old in the fleet here.

Jim Gehlen
16 November 2006
07:53 PM
Scott: How about you go down, take pictures.

Probably catch up with you somewhere around Tucson this winter.

Lee Jacobs
16 November 2006
11:04 PM
Listen, everyone.... the issue Jim ran into in this situation is not about WHO is driving his truck, but the fact that his truck can NOT legally be 'imported' to Mexico, even for the maximum 180 days of his tourist permit.  Exceptions are made to the law when the HDT is towing the RV living unit.  That's the only exception that we have been able to find.

Enchalay's suggestion of renting a standard truck with fifth wheel hitch is best.  Hiring a driver to drive the HDT into Mexico won't work.  It's the HDT that's restricted, not the driver.  Mexico's importation records are in computerized data base now, so I doubt he'll get that truck back in unless he's able to get the RV that shows on the importation permit for the truck OUT, and then bring them back in together.

ON EDIT: Ooops, I'm actually awake now, not half asleep like I was when I posted this.  My endorsement of Enchalay's suggestion is only good IF Jim turned in his vehicle permit for the HDT when he left Mexico.  If not, the computers show that the HDT is still in Mexico, and he can't bring in another vehicle under his own name.  BUT, his wife can have a vehicle in her name and cross the border.  So.... Jim, if the route you choose to take is renting a truck, as Enchalay suggests, you should rent it in your wife's name and then go through all the entry process with her as the driver/owner/renter of the vehicle.  She doesn't have to do the actual driving, only be the person legally responsible for removing the vehicle from Mexico as stipulated in the temporary importation documents.  If doing it this way, be sure to get a letter of permission to leave the US from the rental company, AND be sure she has photo ID and a bank card in the same name as is used to rent the vehicle.  Don't put the truck contract in her nickname, for instance, but in the same name as on her drivers' license and passport and credit or debit card.  I almost got stuck at the border on this one, because I presented my debit card, which has my nickname (Lee) on it instead of my legal name.  Good thing I also had a seldom-used credit card in my legal name with me.  Aaaarrrrggggghhhhhh...... I wish I could make this easier for you!!!

Haven't heard from Jim about his progress since the weekend, so I hope he's been successful in getting his RV towed back across the border.  If you're out there, Jim..... holler at us and let us know what's happening, ok?
Safe travels, everyone, Lee

Bob Speckman
17 November 2006
12:39 PM
Thanks Lee and Scott, its nice to hear the Mexican Fleet has been upgraded its been a couple of years since my last visit down there.  Hope to get back to Mexico soon, but it will probably not be this year as the wife is having surgery that will keep us in MN till at least February.  Merrill, nothing wrong with cabovers IMO.  When we traveled BAJA and Mexico a couple of years ago we saw mostly old cabovers that were in pretty rough shape.  The Mexican mechanics do a great job just to keep them running.
Enchalay
17 November 2006
03:58 PM
I bet it is a relief to be able to get the 5er out.

The boat should be easier when it's time to come home!

Lee Jacobs
18 November 2006
10:02 PM
Here you go, folks....
I took all of these photos from the passenger seat of our little car today.

Huh... Ken said I'd better get at least a couple of Junkers and clunkers or y'all'd think I only took photos of the best trucks  So I tried to get some junkers and clunkers, but never saw any on our 'photo shoot.  Not that there aren't any, but they're finally in the minority, at least around here.
Adios, Lee

vela1
20 November 2006
06:20 PM
I remember a posting a while back Where Jim said he was renting a 1 ton to tow the boat down and the 5er back to Tucson.  He had borrowed the boat trailer so "time was of the essence."
Scott
GeoLogger
20 January 2009
02:22 PM
I do travel to Mexico a couple of times a year (always to Rocky Pt.) and have never had any problems - but have never been in an HDT before either.

Now that I have an HDT, obviously I have a few concerns about heading south.

Has anyone ever had a problem with your fifth-wheel attached? I never plan to travel without my fiver attached to the truck - we just go to the RV park and stay for 4 -7 days, then return.

It seems that the problems crop up when you're traveling bobtail.

Things do seem to be a little more laid back when you're only going to Rocky Point rather than further south.

10-9jc
20 January 2009
03:06 PM
Not related to the types of vehicles, but an *FYI* for those not "border close" for drug war newspaper articles, etc.  (Mexico is in the midst of a violent drug war involving competing cartels, police, federal authorities and the army)

The State Dept. (Oct. 08) has issued safety warnings for those traveling to (through) Tijuana and other border
towns -
"Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana, and Nogales are among the cities which have recently experienced public shootouts during daylight hours in shopping centers and other public venues".

And - (this ran in the local papers, 1-17-09) -
In response to the "prolonged, escalating violence" in Mexico, the commanding general of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force has tightened regulations for all Marines and sailors who want to travel south of the border, officials said.

Lt. Gen. Samuel Holland has ordered that all Marines and sailors under his command seek a "liberty chit" from a Lt. Colonel.  In the past, that regulation has applied only to younger enlisted ranks.  Marines and sailors cannot travel alone to Mexico and must use the buddy system.

Also, troops must take an anti-terrorism course and keep the telephone number of the U.S. consulate in Tijuana when traveling in the border region.  Violations punishable under the UCMJ.
* * * *
Doubt there's much of a line for a "south of the border" liberty chit, LOL!
JC

10-9jc
20 January 2009
07:57 PM
Interesting *required*? reading:

BTW - Jon is like the Energizer (Escapees) Bunny!
(what can you do with that, LOL!)
JC

J.W. Morgan
21 January 2009
12:25 AM
Here is some interesting info for those traveling to Mexico;

For more detailed information on staying safe in Mexico, please see the Mexico Country Specific Information at:
http://travel.state....is/cis_970.html  Information on security and travel to popular tourist destinations is also provided in the publication: “Spring Break in Mexico-Know Before You Go!!”. For the latest security information,
U.S. citizens traveling abroad should regularly monitor the Department's internet web site at http://travel.state.gov where the current Worldwide Caution, Travel Warnings, and Travel Alerts can be found.  Up-to-date information on security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll free in the United States, or, for callers from Mexico, a regular toll line at 001-202-501-4444.  These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays).  American citizens traveling or residing overseas are encouraged to register with the appropriate U.S. Embassy or Consulate on the State Department's travel registration website at https://travelregistration.state.gov/
.

For any emergencies involving U.S. citizens in Mexico, please contact the closest U.S. Embassy or Consulate.  The U.S. Embassy is located in Mexico City at Paseo de la Reforma 305, Colonia Cuauhtemoc, telephone from the United States: 011-52-55-5080-2000; telephone within Mexico City: 5080-2000; telephone long distance within Mexico 01-55-5080-2000.  You may also contact the Embassy by e-mail at: ccs@usembassy.net.mx.  The Embassy's internet address is http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/

DIYGuy
21 January 2009
10:32 AM
Most of the information in this thread dates back to 2006, not really relevant anymore.
FWIW
10-9jc
21 January 2009
03:06 PM
Depends on how you define "relevant".

State Dept. Travel Alert (see duck 2 posts above, or next) is updated daily.

Maybe not relevant for your HDT - but sure enough for your body.
JC

5th_Wheeler
21 January 2009
06:49 PM
I cannot speak for anyone else but I for one would like to know what information in the thread is no longer relevant or "factual" about traveling into Mexico with one's HDT and5er in tow with the intent of leaving your 5er there for a period of time with the intent of returning back into Mexico at a later date with only your HDT "bobtail" to retrieve your 5er?

1. Am I to assume this is no longer a problem, and if so can documentation or a link to such authenticated information be provided to prove there is no longer an issue with driving one's HDT "bobtail" back into Mexico to retrieve their 5er?

2. Am I to assume that I can now rent or borrow a PU truck from a rental company or a friend in the states with the intent of returning to Mexico to retrieve my 5er if Mexican authorities refuse to let me drive my HDT "bobtail" back into Mexico to retrieve my 5er?

3. Am I to assume that just because a thread contains information that was posted back in 2006 that the information is no longer relevant or "factual" at the present time without substantiated information/evidence to prove otherwise or because one individual states that it is?
That is All......

Jack Mayer
21 January 2009
06:59 PM
Jon
The reason going in with the 5er and HDT is no longer an issue is that you simply can not get a permit to do it.

At least that was the case a month ago.  No HDTs in - at all.

5th_Wheeler
21 January 2009
07:12 PM
Hello Jack
Can you provide me with a link to such information on the WWW = Internet?
That is All......
Jack Mayer
21 January 2009
07:16 PM
Not without searching myself, Jon. But Henry probably can.
RVReady
21 January 2009
09:35 PM
After getting lost in the many stray threads attached to the original post (remember the 5er stuck in Mexico?) I am wondering if Quasimotor ever got his trailer back.  He stopped posting shortly after this thread started
Jack Mayer
22 January 2009
11:51 AM
My recollection is that he borrowed a pickup and went and got it.......
hjsdds
22 January 2009
08:29 PM
Last I heard HDT are No-Nos, pulling trailers or otherwise.  Past President of MDT has gone many times to Mexico and wrote two very comprehensive articles in the MDT BoF Newsletter how to do it right and what is required.  He
has one of these F-650 For SuperCrewzers MDTs and he is able to go in and out by describing it a large "pickup" and doesn't advertise that it's really an MDT with a Cat in it.
hjs
5th_Wheeler
23 January 2009
05:54 AM
Thanks Henry, I appreciate the updated information.
That is All.......
bajadan
08 September 2009
09:41 PM
WOW, I found this thread while researching the HDT resource thread, which by the way has so much great info.  Thanks so much to those that put all of it together, I appreciate the good work you did.

I have so many mixed emotions after reading this thread.  The first one is, I was starting to think seriously about upgrading my 1 ton diesel PU for a HDT.  However, many of my future plans are to boondock camp and fish in Baja Sur.  Now I find out HDTs are no longer allowed into Mexico.  Very sad.  I will check with my other sources in Mexico on what the future is on this issue.  One thing about Mexico is, it is always changing.

The other mixed emotion I have has to do with the trashing many here are giving Mexico.  Yes things are not as safe as in the past, particularly the first 100 miles from the border.  But much is the same in the many small villages I have visited in the past, and still very safe.  I feel safer in southern Baja than I do here in Portland OR.

Just so you know, I have boondocked in my RV a total of two years in Mexico and driven back and forth dozens of times, thus my screen name BajaDan2000.

I have had many interesting experiences in Mexico which would fill several books.  What I have to say is, Mexico has different laws and customs than here in the USA.  I have been in trouble there and had my truck taken away for a night.  I worked within their system an got my truck back the next day for far less $$$ than the damage I had caused, even though I was at fault and guilty.  I have never paid a single bribe in Mexico, and never will.  They have a system and bribes are illegal in Mexico.  People that bride are saying they are not whiling to work within their system.  The reason I return to Mexico is for the people.  They are the most friendly, non-prejudice, family orientated and generous people you will find anywhere.  No, I am not Mexican, I am half Polish and half Hungarian.  But I have come to love the Mexican people.  Also, I have had more bad things happen to me while visiting Canada then in Mexico.  And the only time I have had anything stolen in Mexico, it was another snowbird gringo that stole it.

I have talked to many people that have had problems in Mexico. what I found out after asking questions is; most of the time they have caused their own problems by either not respecting the Mexican customs, violating their laws, or doing something dumb like using drugs or driving after dark when the bad things happen to tourists on the Mexican roads.

Sorry this is a long post, but again, I could write several books on what to do and not do in Mexico.

If I hear anything new on this HDT issue, I will post up here.

vela1
08 September 2009
10:36 PM
We agree about the Mexican people and the towns.  After 9 winters in Mexico, 3 with our HDT The month after Caldarone became president and installed his customs people we were refused entry.  We Now spend our dollars in Tucson until such time as the Mexican government will allow HDT and MDT trucks hauling RV back in country,
Scott, Barb, & Tinkerbell
10-9jc
09 September 2009
03:01 AM
Baja Dan-
Guess I could call myself - Baja Juan.
Along with lots of local Firefighters, we have (for me "had") been traveling Baja since before the road was paved.

Agree completely with "the people."  No bribes, etc.

Can't comment on HDTs.

However, the one all important thing you omit - which should be the preface to *ANY* book - is that Mexican Law is the "reverse" of the laws most of us are used to. In Mexico - you are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

I personally know very savvy Baja travelers who spent lots more than one night in the gray bar - including one for Murder!  (A F/F - he made the mistake of stopping to aid the Mexican he hit on a bicycle.  His Mexican Ins said "adios"!)

Another group was robbed at gunpoint - yes, savvy Baja travelers.  (long story - but the PD got the bad guys, beat the heck out of them - - but . . . . the money "disappeared")

I know others who were regulars - one even returning from MX genuinely penniless - and making it on the generosity of Mexicans along the way.  (He had an older car which died - left it where it was.  Had just enough $ for bus and train fare).  In later years, same guy would regularly collect clothes and other donations from Church groups - including a water truck - and take them to Rancho Sordo Mudo (school for the deaf).  Says he won't go anymore.

At least two other ret F/Fs (anglos) are married to "Baja" Mexicans and live there full time.

Several friends own houses in Baja - the ones WAY down, fly down most of the time.  A couple are/were RE developers (former F/Fs).  Hopefully, I'll see one guy (who owns 3) closer to the border towns in a couple of days (if he shows up to our ret guys b/fast).  His opinion is good as gold - Mexican-American in his mid seventies and been going to Baja since his teens.

Other thing you left out - don't die in Mexico!  Ain't cheap to retrieve your remains! (and or personal possessions - which will most likely never be seen again)

Two former friends - separate incidents- had that unfortunate experience fostered on their families.  One was an (active) LAPD officer.

IMO - I'll take my chances with Canada, LOL!
JC

bajadan
09 September 2009
10:50 AM
Yes, bad things have happened to good Americans in Mexico, and in the last few years it has gotten much worse.  Sela1 mentioned the rules began to be enforced for HDT travels when Caldarone became president.  Many things in Mexico changed when he became president and his party took over, and not all for the better.

Caldarone fired many of the corrupt govt. workers.  Complete police departments for entire cities and towns were let go and replaced with people he thinks he has better control over.  The problem is, now there are many out of work police officers that have ties to the drug cartels.  Many out of work police officers have gone to work for the drug cartels.  The cartels have expanded from running drugs to kidnapping.  Some fired officers use their old uniforms to stop and rob tourists of everything, including their vehicles.  Some tourists have been killed during these robberies.  Also, there is a power struggle that is going on between the drug cartels that has lead to many murders.  Many of the new govt. officials have been assassinated.  By trying to eliminate corruption, the price Caldarone has paid is increased crime and violence within his own country.  I do not know if what Caldarone is trying to do is going to work in the long run or not, probably not.  But as a tourist driving the roads, specially the first 100 miles from the border, it is much more dangerous if driven at night than 10 years ago.

Maybe I have just been lucky in Mexico and had bad luck in Canada, but I have been taken by scam artists while in Canada and have been the target of more attempts made.  There are bad people in every country.  Heck we had a 16 year old female foreign exchange student that was shot and killed here in Portland OR. this Jan.  Guess what that country now thinks of Portland OR.??  The entire world is no longer as safe as it was 10 years ago, including the USA.

As far as the Mexican legal system, yes it is much different than the USA.  For one they have very few lawyers.  Many cases are decided within days before a govt. official that seems to be a combination of regional police chief and judge.  I have been through the system and found it to be a very fair system and corrupt free at that level.  One thing to keep in mind, if you get in trouble down there is, they are going to protect their own people and their property, something our country does not do.  If you show you honestly want to make things right rather than get a quick fix with a bribe, you will be treated very fairly.  At that level, they understand the value of keeping the tourists happy and returning to their country.

There are good and bad people and places in every country.  Just because parts of Detroit or LA are very dangerous, would you tell someone from another country not to go to the Grand Canyon to visit?  If you stay away from the bad places and bad people in Mexico, and follow a few safety precautions, you will have a good safe time...

Tourism in Mexico is one of their largest industries.. Yes many regulars are now being cautious and staying away.  Tourism is down as much as 50% or more in many areas.  My suggestion is, get all of the HDT and MDT tourists to send letters to the Mexican dept. of tourism as well as Caldarone and explain their situation.  When the Mexican govt. officials realize this is a silly way to loose tourists $$$, there is a chance that the rules will be changed.  Tourists have written before and had the rules changed.  The way the 180 day tourist visa is now handled comes to mind..

10-9jc
09 September 2009
06:51 PM
*All* of the "events" I listed - took place long *BEFORE* the election of Felipe Calderon.

Also, all of those events happened in "good" parts of the country - where the "bad people" weren't supposed to be.

As you indicate, things have gotten worse.