FreedomLine Vs. Ultrashift
FreedomLine Vs. Ultrashift |
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| BajaRat 13 May 2009 06:09 PM |
Anyone care to weigh in on the good, the bad, and the ugly about both of these transmissions? Are they both good units? One better than the other? Don't bother with Ishift. That is not on my radar. Thanks to those that post on this! |
| Phil D 13 May 2009 10:46 PM |
I insisted on a two-pedal truck when I bought, because I wanted the DW to be able to drive it in a pinch, despite her insistence that she'd NEVER drive it, no matter what, because I was sure that a clutch pedal would be a deal-breaker. I was right -- within five or six weeks of buying the Kenworth she was driving it occasionally, and now has even towed our trailer for three or four miles so far.
My truck has a twelve-speed FreedomLine, and I've been extremely pleased with it thus far. Based on my experience to date, I'd recommend one to anybody. I was willing to buy either one, but I found the FreedomLine equipped truck without ever having the chance to look at an Ultrashift. IMO, either transmission would be a good choice. The Ultrashift is an automated RoadRanger, which are pretty much bulletproof mechanically. The FreedomLine is the North American version of the ZF Astronic, which has billions of kilometers of use behind it in Europe, where automated transmissions have a much larger share of the market than they do here. If you have any questions pertaining to the FreedomLine specifically, or general questions about fully automated transmissions, just ask away. I'll be happy to reply. |
| BajaRat 13 May 2009 10:54 PM |
Thanks for the reply Phil. What gear do you start off in? : Bobtail With 5er in tow? Do you skip/quick shift any gears on the upshift when bobtail? Many thanks! |
| Phil D 13 May 2009 11:04 PM |
The FreedomLine will start off in third gear no matter what. It will also skip several gears on the way up when bobtail, usually just one, but I've seen it skip two on rare occasions. Depending on whether it decides to grab fourth or fifth gear on the first upshift, it will usually skip the even or odd gears up to seventh or eighth, then catch them all from ninth through twelfth.
I've come to the conclusion that it's far smarter than I am on the highway, so I never put it into manual mode, except when I'm driving around town bobtail. It does tend to hold one step too low when cruising at steady speeds around town, so I'll put it in manual mode and upshift, but that's the only time that I do |
| Scrap 13 May 2009 11:46 PM |
Yes the LHP's will tend to do the same thing. 1/4 of the time it'll shift just as I've started to reach for the button, 1/4 of the time I have to do it manually, and 1/4 of the time it'll ding at me. The other 1/4 of the time I slam my left foot thru the floorboard when coming to a stop. Like Phil was saying in the other thread, I had to heel-toe the FreedomLine at that red light on the hill where Ultrashifts I've never had to (at 75K).
They are two totally different animals and your choice will become clear after a test drive in your conditions. One will behave the way you expect and the other one won't. Also, did Volvo offer both for a period of time? Or will your model year determine which one you get? |
| Phil D 14 May 2009 - 01:38 AM |
I think that Volvo offered both once the Ultrashift became available (as with all makes, the earliest trucks with fully automated gearboxes will be FreedomLines). I know that Peterbilt went exclusively Ultrashift (in their '05 models, IIRC), but as far as I know they were the only one to drop one to go exclusively with the other, at least back in that era. Volvo was still offering the FreedomLine -- and the Ultrashift, as far as I know -- along with their own automated tranny, as recently as when Donnie Barnes ordered his truck a little over a year ago.
The two-footed driving when stopped on grades isn't a big deal, but that three second brake hold would make driving a fully automated tranny just like driving a slushbox automatic. |
| BajaRat 14 May 2009 09:21 AM |
Great info Phil ! Thanks |
| paulshaunaalan 14 May 2009 03:57 PM |
I have the 10 speed Ultrashift and I am also very happy with it. It starts in 3rd gear and I am told I can have it programmed to start in 4th but have not tried it yet. There is a 13 speed also but most of the trucks I have seen seem to be the 10speeds. The truck is as easy to drive I would say as my 3/4 ton Yukon XL is. I am very happy with the Ultrashift and would buy it again. I was also looking for a FreedomLine when I was shopping but just happened to find this truck with the Ultrashift. I drove some with FreedomLines as well while shopping and would gladly buy either one. Paul |
| DonF 15 May 2009 02:55 AM |
Like Phil, finding a 2-pedal was a requirement -- so DW would drive it, which she has done, splitting the time cross-country several times the last two years; she doesn't like city traffic, especially construction zones with narrowed-down lanes,,, BUT she has done it, several times (thru SLC and, last fall, El Paso)! Her main complaint has been the steering freeplay, which we've addressed several times (i.e., replaced drag-link, more recently 3-axle alignment, front-end stabilizer kit, replaced front u-joint).
Our 16 speed is programmed to start in 4th gear, though I might have it set for 3rd (to reduce tranny strain with 5'er attached). It skips gears based on its load sensor; when bobtail, it goes 4, 8, 12; 15 & 16 are over-drive. My main complaint is the 2-foot control needed to keep it from running away when "facing" an uphill start from dead-stop, needing to inch my way... you get used to it. |
| Scrap 23 May 2009 01:30 AM |
I know you said not to bother with I-shift, but I got to. Finally got to test drive one a couple times this week. Simply incredible. Nothing compares to it. And that's not just because it was new and cool. I could tell by the first red light out of the dealer that it knew what it was doing. |
| deadDog 26 May 2009 10:07 AM |
FreedomLine came in my 04 630. It's a sweet tranny. Only thing I don't like about 2-pedal is you can't manually feather the clutch when you really need it, like backing into the trailer. You have to be very careful you don't fully engage the clutch and ram the pin. The risk in doing so over and over is overheating the clutch, which in the Volvo, lets you know when that's happened.
I use the manual mode to get through the first five or six shifts, so I can rev the engine up and get moving quickly. I typically skip shift in manual to about 9th gear and then switch to auto. It doesn't always shift smoothly, but then neither do I with a manual all the time. |
| BajaRat 26 May 2009 10:19 AM |
So, what is the standard operating procedure for backing up to your trailer with the 2 pedal? |
| Phil D 26 May 2009 12:32 PM |
Use both feet to operate both the fuel feed and the brake to control the approach speed, rather than slipping the clutch as you would in a manual or Autoshift . . . and avoid Reverse High like the plague! |
| Steve in SoCal 26 May 2009 12:58 PM |
I have wondered about this for a while. Is there modulation of the clutch or is it counter weighted to allow some feather? I don't know the logic of the two pedal transmissions but I would venture to guess that wheel speed is a determining factor in clutch dis-engagement? In stop and go traffic are there any issues with clutch temps? Steve |
| Phil D 26 May 2009 09:37 PM |
It's pretty tough to "feather" the clutch via the fuel feed, and you have no direct control over it. It's all controlled by the transmission's computer, as it feels appropriate, and it's programmed with a bias toward protecting the clutch, not to making subtle moves with the clutch. It's best to just let it take up and control momentum with the brake instead.
Realistically, I can't imagine a problem with clutch temperature in stop and go traffic, unless traffic was lurching forward in very small increments, and the truck operator was foolish enough to try to close that gap every time. You really have to be making a lot of repeated attempts to make small moves to get a warning about clutch temps. |
| MacDaddy 26 May 2009 09:50 PM |
I find that surprising, although my 5 minutes in a FreedomLine pales to your experience. I remember a demo where the controlled backing speed was specifically demonstrated by the transmission engineer......hmmm. |
| Phil D 26 May 2009 10:11 PM |
MacDaddy If that transmission engineer has any tips or is willing to divulge a few secrets, I'm sure that I'm not the only one that would be most appreciative. The only FreedomLine documentation that my truck came with is that little 3" X 8" or so sticker slapped above the driver's side door (it may have had something when new, but nearly all of the manuals and glove compartment literature were gone by the time I bought my truck), and I have yet to find any driving tips in any of the PDFs on Meritor's Documents On Demand page, unless I managed to overlook them. |