Progressive Insurance Surprise!


Progressive Insurance Surprise!

Progressive Insurance "Surprise!" for TV's

15 July 2009
12:26 PM
Just heard from Farm & City, the agent.  Apparently Progressive will no longer cover (in my case-maybe just HDT's) the TV for ANYTHING unless it is hooked to the trailer.  No Wal-Mart trip, fuel, dinner, etc.

Bobtail=no coverage, period.

15 July 2009
01:33 PM
I'm not quite sure that I understand?  You mean that they won't write a policy for the tow truck, only the trailer?  I would think that you would have two policies, one on the trailer,  (fulltimer policy) and a second on the tow truck?  What state are you domiciled in?
15 July 2009
03:33 PM
I thought your post was crystal clear.  You are the second person I've heard this from.  Presume you'll try Foremost or National Interstate (PoliSeek)?
Stanley P. Miller
15 July 2009
03:47 PM
Foremost made me sign a waiver of coverage if I was pulling anything other than my own trailer and I had to have both truck and fiver on the same policy.  I'd call Progressive directly and ask for clarification.
15 July 2009
04:37 PM
Does this apply for only HDTs and MDTs, or does it apply to *any* tow vehicle?
15 July 2009
05:51 PM
As I said, that was from the agent.  I called progressive and discussed it with a supposedly senior person.  They said the TV was covered if it was being used "related to the RV trailer."  So if you are at a CG and go for fuel, you would be covered.  What is NOT covered is a use that could (by strict interpretation) be unrelated.  Like driving the TV down town where you live for new tires could be an "iffy" thing.  I asked for something in writing to hang my hat on, and so far it is not forthcoming.  Agent wants to put me with Allied, but that could be just that Allied is giving a bigger percentage back than Progressive this month.  My feeling is, that since I have 2 separate policies, I have 2 separate vehicles COVERED.  We'll see.  I am good till 8/16.  I have nothing against Allied, but it is a couple more bucks and I'd lose the 4 yrs. with Progressive towards my 'disappearing deductible", etc.  Stay tuned................
Stanley P. Miller
15 July 2009
08:27 PM
I've only seen it with MDT/HDT trucks and it appears to be due to the few bad apples that try to sneak in a bit of commercial hauling on their non-commercial insurance.

Since some of the bigger pickups are technically MDTs due to their weight ratings this might effect them too.

15 July 2009
09:40 PM
This has been common in the trucking industry.  Insurance is only in effect when pulling a trailer.  Every owner operator I know carries a separate bobtail policy.  I do not know if this type of coverage is available to non-commercial vehicles.
FWIW, shaker
16 July 2009
11:21 AM
Ok, seems like we have "drilled down" to the real crotch of the situation.  Agent did a backpedal after they and I both talked to Progressive's claims dept.  There is no difference in the wording or coverage between Progressive and Allied.  What they agent is supposedly "concerned with" is that I understand the TV is not to be used as a stand-alone unit to camp in, and that it be used in 'conjunction' with the trailer.  I can go get tires, fuel, maintenance etc. anywhere when not towing, but can't use it for a trip to a restaurant (for example) when operating from my home base.  Has to be directly related to the use as an RV. I'm staying with Progressive, because I have 2 separate policies.  I like that, because in a push-come-to-shove situation, I think it would give me an edge getting something covered when using the TV.  Bear in mind, that the law says if the insurance co. writes the policy wording, any ambiguity is decided in favor of the policyholder.  I still think they wanted to move me for other reasons (like better commission from Allied, and I am going to find another agent to continue my policy with.  Basically they screwed with my head this week, and it turns out for nothing.  I would have lost my clean track record (=disappearing deductible) with Progressive, lost my "2 policy" status, and the premium was higher with Allied too.
Dave O
16 July 2009
12:39 PM
Hi Sibernut
If you are serious about changing agents, give PoliSeek (old Aon/RVAA) a holler and see what they would do for you.  We have used them for years and very pleased with their level of support.

On edit--WE are with Progressive for the insurance and PoliSeek as the agent.
Dave O

16 July 2009
02:24 PM
Did ping Poliseek as part of the scramble BS I just went thru.  Because truck is in MD they can't help with any other carrier.  Didn't consider them for Progressive, as I was moving FROM them.  I have a local agent that does all my other stuff and Progressive also.  They will get the commission now, I'm moving the policy to them.
16 July 2009
09:11 PM
I tried to get a quote from Farm & City a couple years ago and I swear they don't know what they are talking about.

My motor home is registered in my corporation name and they said they couldn't write coverage, i don't remember which ins company they were quoting but i went to a different agent and got it covered without any problems.

17 July 2009
11:56 AM
That is good news.  What Stan said does make some degree of sense, at least for the "big" trucks.  One would think that they could write a policy to exclude commercial use, but.. Those dad-blamed lawyers seem to run our lives!
Stanley P. Miller
17 July 2009
02:07 PM
I asked about that "excluding commercial use" option and the answer was that then the insurance company would then have to prove it was in commercial use to deny a claim rather than just saying "it wasn't your trailer - take a hike" which is better for them.
17 July 2009
02:40 PM
Hello Ron
Consider yourself one of the lucky ones......

My Farm & City Progressive policy on the Volvo is up for renewal on 07/18 and the Citation policy is up for renewal on 07/31.

I had never received a call from Farm &City about this fiasco about not being able to use the Volvo unless it was in conjunction with the 5er therefore I was getting this Warm Fuzzy Feeling Inside that somehow this didn't apply to residents of LA.

Could our luck be changing??????


Mary received a phone call from Terse Hallet @ Farm & City around 2:00 yesterday afternoon asking to speak with me about the Volvo policy.

WOW, we receive a call about said changes all of a day and half before the policy is up for renewal!!!!

Need I say less, I'm not a >>Happy Camper<< about that one......

Anyway, Mary in turn gave me a ring ah ding from Alabama shortly after that and I in turn finally got ah hold of Terse Hallet @ Farm & City around 4:00 yesterday afternoon.

Here's my assessment of the situation....

After a lengthily conversation with Terse, I'm of the opinion that each conversion policy holder is given different answers about the extent of said policy changes based SOLELY on how hard you push the Farm & City employee you speak with as nothing much was volunteered to me without me bringing up a lot of What Ifs and still some of the answers didn't match up with some of the answers other have posted.....

As it stands now I'm of the opinion that I can use my truck locally "residence or home base city" to fuel up, drive to a tire facility for tire repairs or to a repair shop due to mechanical issues with the truck.

Now here's the kicker, the closest repair facility that I would consider using for Volvo repairs other than for emergency repairs to get the truck running is 200/275 miles from my residence!

Am I now tied down to only using repair facilities that I would never have used in or around the Big Easy or do accident I won't be insured......

Now to insured use of the Volvo when on the road unattached from a TT or 5er.

a. Ok to run to the store to pick up groceries as long as the store is within spitting distance of the campground.
b. Ok to run to a tire repair shop or mechanics shop as long as the facilities are within spitting distance of the campground.
c. Ok to drive to a hospital or medical facility as long as the facility is within spitting distance of the campground.
d. Ok to use the Volvo as a stand alone RV in National parks if and only if the truck and 5er won't fit in any available camp space within the park as long as the 5er is at another camp ground within spin distance of the National park.

Now I have to be honest, I would expect something in writing from Farm & City before using the truck for #d above........

My final question of Terse was, what would happen if we were in Oklahoma, Arizona, Florida or any other state and the 5er was damaged in an accident to the extent that we could no longer pull it with the Volvo?

Would Farm & City and Progressive expect us to stay in said city/state with the Volvo until the 5er was road worthy, would we have to leave the Volvo there and fly home then return to pick up the Volvo and 5er once the repairs were completed -OR- would we be allowed to return back home with the Volvo alone then head back for the 5er once the repairs are completed.

And the answer is

She didn't know, but she said that she would give me a call first thing in the morning with the answer to that one in addition to answers to several other questions that she couldn't answer yesterday..........

Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick Tick

It's now 2:39 PM CST and still no phone call from Terse........

Oh, I failed to mention this...

After being insured with Progressive through Farm & City for nearly four years I now find out that I haven't had Purchase Price Coverage on the Volvo as I was told when I first set the policy up with TH in June of 2005.

This means that I've been paying higher premiums over the past four years on the Volvo as Progressive wouldn't have reimbursed me the purchase price of the truck as I was told from the inception of the policy therefore each year the value of the policy should have been reduced to offset the current value of the truck which would have reduced my annual premium on the Volvo.
That is All.........

Dave O
17 July 2009
03:11 PM
Has anyone gotten in touch with Angie Carr.  Some of these companies are Escapees commercial members.  I had a problem and Cathy Carr (Angies' predecessor) was able to intercede, get me to the correct management person and problem resolved to my satisfaction.
Posted 17 July 2009
07:41 PM
MW is an underwriter, and used to be an agency sales rep for a company.  Sometimes, they would offer an agent a substantial additional commission if they would move a number of policies to them within a certain period.  This is called a "book roll."  I get the feeling this may be what's happening here, as suddenly when I started asking specific questions, and called Progressive myself the problem disappeared.  If you are not happy with your agent, you can pick another one and do what is called a "Broker of Record" form, change the policy (and the commission) to another agent of your choice.

PS- I don't think Progressive was real happy about Farm & City trying to scare me off their books either.  " Oh no, Mr. Knight, you're the kind of person we want to keep, yadda, yadda".

Ray H
17 July 2009
11:04 PM
I'm also with Progressive Insurance, at least that's what all my paperwork states, and who I call to make any changes.  Even though everything states Progressive, I guess I purchased my policy through RV America Insurance.  Anyway, when I was on the phone last month changing my coverage on the 5th wheel from the old to the new, I asked that same question about the coverage on my other policy on the tow vehicle.  They pulled up the policy and assured me I was covered with or without the 5th wheel attached.  No restrictions.  That information does concur with my review of the actual policy.
Stanley P. Miller
18 July 2009
01:57 AM
Any time I get jerked around by an agent I go looking for a new agent.

I don't mind them making money off me but trying to shuffle my life around to make a couple more bucks tells me they aren't interested in me, just my money and I don't need to depend on someone like that when I have a claim

18 July 2009
02:59 AM
When I first checked into Progressive, I called Terse Hallet at Farm & City.  Highly recommended.  Nice, polite lady - but (in my opinion) she had some "hang-ups" about "things" (Guess I'd call it "picky").

For me, it (she) was just bad karma ("vibes"?) or something.

Should add both the wife and I have sterling driving (no cites) and accident/claim (none) records for over 20 years.

Went with a different agency (think the same one Stan may have recommended) - friendly, no problems - no "complications" - with Progressive.

Plenty of sand on the beach - say adios and move on.

20 July 2009
05:37 PM
Thank you very much for posting this information.  We have had Progressive for several years now and I specifically asked when I purchased if I was covered for "bobtailing."  I was assured that I was.  So, after reading your post, I called Progressive a few minutes ago, and they confirmed what you are saying.  He insisted that my truck was listed as a motorhome.  I tried to explain that I could not sleep or use the bathroom in a MDT.  My card showing coverage does not list the FL60 as a motorhome.  But the guy on the telephone said if I had an accident without the trailer, a claim would be denied.  I asked how long it would be before they would send my refund, and he hemmed and hawed and never gave me an answer.  I will cancel tomorrow as soon as I can obtain other coverage.  No wonder they were cheaper!!!!!!!!!!!
20 July 2009
07:14 PM
In 7 years my MH insurance(GMAC) has never went down because of depreciation.  I think most Insurance Co. don't do that.

In fact with no claims, no tickets the MH Insurance premiums has increased to $300 more a year since 2004.  MH depreciated around $31,000 in that time.

Progressive Insurance on my Motorcycle changed very little since 2001.  Since I don't ride much anymore (Pulling toad this summer) I just went to liability this year on it.

21 July 2009
04:49 PM
I called a local Agent for Progressive today, and she advised me to call Progressive again and talk to someone else who better understood the RV situation.  I did, got a Supervisor (or so they said). He assured me that I was covered even if I was "Bobtail", just like I would be if I was driving a 1 Ton Dually, because both the 5th wheel and the truck are covered under separate policies.  He did state that they had no provision for Medium Duty or Heavy Duty Trucks, so they treat them like motorhomes.  A medium and heavy duty truck are certainly a lot safer than a 1 Ton pulling these heavy 5th wheels.  You would think they would not gives us ulcers and train their folks a little better.
21 July 2009
06:33 PM
Obi-Wan I talked to at Progressive was Dan Furlong.  Nice guy, and he seemed to know his stuff on these.  Ask your guy if he will confirm your conversation with an email, heh, heh.........
23 July 2009
12:13 PM
For those of you with a Progressive policy- check the values on the 2nd page, where it says "coverages."  My agent kept asking me for a value, and we put in a specific number.  Note that it says "The lesser of the ACV (Actual Cash Value) or $XXXX).  You have just capped your recovery off at that figure, even if they determine it was worth more than that by comparison to other vehicles the same.  I am asking them for a straight ACV policy now, I'll post when/if I get a response.  Meanwhile, my deductible has "disappeared" since no losses.  So I asked them to raise the deductible to $1,000, and I saved $56.
24 July 2009
03:49 PM
Final resolution today.  They MUST have a figure in there, so I told them to raise it 10,000.  Now policy is 10G higher than I had, 1,000 coll/comp deductible and I came in at $587/yr.  That's cheaper than I had by $25 bucks or so.  Case closed.  Changed agents.
27 July 2009
11:08 AM
I have now and have had Progressive Insurance on my FL120.  After reading about all this I read my policy closely and found nothing to indicate such, as no coverage while bobtailing.  My HDT is insured as a motor home, my question to myself was, how do you bobtail in a motor home?  This morning I called and spoke with my agent and posed the question.  The HDT is covered with or with out travel trailer unless I am for hire, also there is coverage up to $2500.00 for a utility trailer I might be pulling, that is mine.  He indicated different rules apply in different states, I am in Texas, truck is licensed in TX, this could be part of the answer.  JMHO
28 July 2009
02:15 PM
Our Progressive policy on the TT states "Purchase price $xxxx".  Always has since we bought it... 8 years ago.  Our puller is a W250, on a separate policy.
28 July 2009
05:52 PM
The person who owns the Pete has it registered as a "HOUSECAR" an have very cheap maximum liability insurance.

But, when I wanted to continue to have fulltimer insurance on the fiver, the premium went from $2k to $10k per year!  It didn't take me long to cancel the insurance on the fiver.  That's over $30k saved already!

Both Progressive and GMAC didn't understand how I could full time without a tow vehicle, so they just raised the premium.

D K.
03 September 2009 - 10:28 AM
For those who are having issues with Progressive saying they will not cover large trucks bobtail, I can only offer you this:

We have had our Volvo insured as a stand alone policy for 4 years now.  We have not had any type of trailer on our policy since 2004, we have NOT even owned a travel trailer or 5th wheel since then.  I have had coverage with Progressive since 2003, but have changed the policy from Montana, to South Dakota, to Georgia and finally back to it's current status as a Montana policy with out of state garaging in Alabama.  We have Progressive Direct for our agent.  Their Florida call center has handled our policy for 2 years now.

We have our Volvo registered in Montana as a MH.  Bennett's Law office in Missoula, MT submitted the paperwork for us.  We are legal Montana residents who own actual real property, so the out of state garaging is not an issue.  At one point, we contacted Progressive Direct regarding a lot of the concerns mentioned in this thread.  We wasted A LOT of our time to get a competent agent within their Progressive Direct department and several callbacks to get the coverage issues resolved, nonetheless we are insured including a built in $2,500 coverage of a towed trailer such as a utility trailer or tow dolly or whatever we PERSONALLY own.  I specifically asked about pulling a trailer from U haul or Ryder and was assured that as long as I have an actual rental contract for the trailer in our names, NOT a business or carrier lease contract, we are within our policy limits.  The $2,500.00 hitched allowance for a towed trailer can be raised at any time to cover a higher value trailer such as our big 48' storage trailer we pull when moving, but we have to call in for it.  The only stipulation their underwriter made about towed items was a motorized vehicle that is licensed for the street will NOT be covered by the Volvo's policy beyond liability of the truck hitting something else with the trailer in a wreck or property damage claim.  In addition, a RV trailer must have it's own policy for it's replacement.  Bottom line, if you own a 5ver or a travel trailer, the liability to others is extended from bumper to bumper of the complete rig, but your own property behind the truck needs it's own policy or stated amendment to the truck pulling it as an additional item.

If Progressive refuses to pay a claim on my WIA, they will have a hard time arguing that I was "bobtailing" with my circumstances.  Just something to consider for anyone who is getting fed a load of crap from a car salesman turned insurance agent.

Obviously ever policy holder has their own agreement due to the time and circumstances under which they obtained insurance, but for me, this should disprove the paranoia that there MUST be a trailer hooked up for you to be covered.  I would certainly read through the policy for any footnotes about an attached trailer being needed, but if it's just a "policy" or memo they are referring to internally, I'd contact the state insurance regulatory agency or state attorney general to review the denied claim for me.  The policy is what I'm going to revert back to, not their water bubbler conferences amongst themselves.

03 September2009
01:46 PM
We thought this was going to happen to us also this past summer even though we are not with Progressive.  Come to find out it was only the policies issued to LLC's out of Montana that the insurance company had a problem with.  We are Florida residents and so were not part of the problem group.  Our Agent was really scrambling for a while until it was all straightened out.  However, he kept after it, and finally got high enough in the insurance company food chain of bull*@#t artists to get a clear answer.
17 September 2009
06:35 PM
I find all of this discussion very interesting.

What I do NOT understand is why people continue to use insurance agents.

Why not take your business directly to the insurance company of your choice?

In my case, I deal directly with the insurance company; either by their web site or by way of an 800 number.

It seems to me that dealing with an agent who is obviously, based on this thread, more interested in taking care of his/herself than clients is not the thing to do.

I will never understand why people beat themselves up in order to give their money to someone who really does not do anything for them; don't get me started on vehicle sales people; there is NOT enough time left in the universe to discuss this one.

23 September 2009
01:49 PM
Well I have not been on here in quite some time but I took some advice from a few HDTers and bought a 1997 WIA.  I was in Afghanistan when I purchased it but now that I am back I find myself in need of some advice on insurance.  Specifically, I have a question for Dave K.  I see that you insure your WIA through Progressive and my situation seems similar to yours.  I use mine to pull a 48" cargo trailer that hauls off road vehicles (even though I have made living quarters in the front of the trailer).  I am not really an RVer for the most part and I own land in Illinois.  My question is how you have your Volvo insured through Progressive.  Do you have it insured as a motorhome/RV or is it as a regular Class A personal vehicle?  Also, do you have to have a trailer on the policy?  The reason I ask is because I called them and the guy I spoke with said I needed all sorts of stuff in the truck to insure it as an RV.  Now, I have 110v power, toilet, fridge and microwave simply to qualify it as an RV in Illinois but he said I have to have sleeping quarters and a freshwater system (along with some other small things).

I assume you do not have sleeping quarters and water in the truck.  Maybe I just talked to the wrong guy or possibly you do not insure it as an RV?  Thanks for any advice you have.